I think American usage is much more aligned (allied?) with meaning 6 here:
6
: PERSON
not a soul in sight
6
: PERSON
not a soul in sight
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The Soul in Hinduism and Buddhism is, I understand from my own selective readings (primarily Alan Watts), the Atman, which is seen as the governing principle of all life, to which all should accord, rather than a god or God, in any anthropomorphic sense. They see all living beings as at one with this principle, or life force - something that is closest perhaps to Bergson's élan vital in Western philosophy. Individual beings are not seen as having separate souls in the pure Indian tradition - this principle of inseparability being represented by the Sanscrit term Anatman, or no-soul. Enlightenment consists in part in a deep realisation of ones inseparability from this realm, and a ceasing for longing for eternity. That longing keeps the individual perpetually on the wheel or round of birth-and-death, or Samsara, and it is this which Watts, after years of discussion with mahatmas of various of the many Hindu persuasions and particular Zen masters keen to disabuse Western advocates, came to understand as a metaphoric rather than literal interpretation of re-incarnation. Indeed he argued that many believers in re-incarnation might themselves be clinging onto belief in an afterlife in hope. No afterlife means no one to experience it.
Personally, were I to be world dictator, I would set Watts's The Way of Zen as compulsory reading in all state-run schools worldwide; it would immediately foster a fundamental attitudinal and psychological change in the collective mindset and potentially set humankind off on a pathway to a sustainable future.Comment
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....added to that Music Matters on Saturday passed (6.7.20) appeared to be another Private Passions spin off with Clive Myrie and Lyse Ducet....is someone getting their days mixed up Record Review is Saturday and Music Map is on Sundays....(or is it me who is confused)bong chingComment
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....and does that rule change when atrophy gets less.....Originally posted by vinteuil View Postbong chingComment
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Music Matters now consists of themed series. We had 6 episodes of Clemency Burton-Hill on the Western-Eastern Divan orchestra; now I presume we get 6 episodes BBC presenters reporting from the war front.Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
The next series will be BBC presenter Nick Robinson on the last 6 Conservative prime ministers, followed by BBC presenter Laura Kuenssberg on 6 Current Women Leaders From Around the World. This will be followed by BBC presenter Robert Peston on 6 Ways of Making Money Fast.
Ad nauseam.
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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... followed by a series with Jools Holland interviewing pairs of shoes & asking why sole matters to them.Originally posted by french frank View PostMusic Matters now consists of themed series. We had 6 episodes of Clemency Burton-Hill on the Western-Eastern Divan orchestra; now I presume we get 6 episodes BBC presenters reporting from the war front.
The next series will be BBC presenter Nick Robinson on the last 6 Conservative prime ministers, followed by BBC presenter Laura Kuenssberg on 6 Current Women Leaders From Around the World. This will be followed by BBC presenter Robert Peston on 6 Ways of Making Money Fast. Ad nauseam.
Tom Service's interviews might actually be recent highlights.
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#20 #21
bong chingComment
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... "immediately foster" my aunt Fanny -Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
"collective mindset" -
- there will always be bolshie contrarian pupils (comme moi) who will be able to argue against this stuff (and with reason) - bicoz this buddhist world view quickly runs up against real problems covered by things such as personal identity -
Suggested initial reading here -
Bernard Williams, Problems of the Self
Derek Parfitt, Reasons and Persons
David Wiggins, Identity and Spatio-Temporal Continuity
But Serial might enjoy this approach -
.Last edited by vinteuil; 08-07-24, 17:58.Comment
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Thanks vints - I'll read that tomorrow.Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
... "immediately foster" my aunt Fanny -
"collective mindset" -
- there will always be bolshie contrarian pupils (comme moi) who will be able to argue against this stuff (and with reason) - bicoz this buddhist world view quickly runs up against real problems covered by things such as personal identity -
Suggested initial reading here -
Bernard Williams, Problems of the Self
Derek Parfitt, Reasons and Persons
David Wiggins, Identity and Spatio-Temporal Continuity
But Serial might enjoy this approach -
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According to the OED 'soul' can mean:Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
The lungs of a goose (or occasionally another fowl).
The bore of a cannon.
A nocturnal moth = ghost moth
The sound-post of a violin.
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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....I like the AtMan approach - I believe it really could be successful if only folk would get behind it and forget their "invisible friend" tendencies....free, clear, unadulterated....(Ah we worship The Cleaner Up of Dirty Minds - and offer up our Iphones and the need to have a 24 vehicle with all the frills).....Ah but don't they know it is the thrill of frills that blights their happiness....and we'd never have to use the word beseech again [except when talking to Darren Southgate]....bong chingComment
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One of the points central to Zen Buddhism, in particular, that marks it down as a distinctive sort of "faith", consists in trusting to one's inborn nature - which, after all (if we are to believe in the principles of ecology and evolution) was induced into us from the conditions that gave rise to our species, including our capacity or potential for reasoning - as presented by Alan Watts. What he argued must seem self-evident (excuse pun) and incontrovertible: to not trust in ones inmost nature is synonymous with inability to trust in one's mistrust, given that trust and mistrust both emanate from one and the same source. An error of reasoning has come about, partly through a culture's belief in reason(ing) holding all the final cards. The only argument against this would be forced to divide the self against the self, but this good vs. evil dichotomy is a Christian and post-Christian construct - one which has proved very useful in controlling others and instilling self-control (or the illusion thereof) into children. The cultivated individual is not brought about by self-repression (which as Freud understood (even though by dint of his own Christian guilt residues he thought it necessary) merely triggers secondary problems), but through practice, in the way, say, a musician, calligrapher or lathe operator becomes skilled. Forced growth is antithetical to Zen, and for all the advances of science we too often see the de-stabilising counter-productiveness of bending nature to our bidding.
That's it! I did not have to go far into the references kindly provided by vinteuil to find this passage outlining a provisional character of identity to be completely in harmony with Buddhist teachings, as I understand them:Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
Someone's personal identity in this sense, [what sort of person I am in some deep and fundamental sense] is in this sense contingent and temporary; the way I identify myself as a person might have been different, and can vary from one time to another. it is a subset, usually small, of the properties someone has.
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