"Beautiful" abuse

[Guest]

What on earth do R3 presenters mean when they talk about "a beautiful piece of music"?

• Are only some of the works played on R3 "beautiful"?
• Only some of the performances?

They plumbed the depths this morning with a trailer for "a day of beautiful music" next Sunday.

"When I hear the word beautiful I reach for the off switch."

[french frank]

What on earth do R3 presenters mean when they talk about "a beautiful piece of music"?

• Are only some of the works played on R3 "beautiful"?
• Only some of the performances?

They plumbed the depths this morning with a trailer for "a day of beautiful music" next Sunday.

"When I hear the word beautiful I reach for the off switch."

Hello bobelmes - and welcome to the forum

It hath the sound of Classic FM about it ... I wonder if the trail 'voices' write their own scripts?

[richardfinegold]

It could be worse. What if they all sounded like Hanslick and said something like "Now we will have a program of music that stinks to the ear."

[Flay]

"When I hear the word beautiful I reach for the off switch."

Welcome bobelmes

Caliban mentioned the BBC Twitter page on his "work for the DG" post

I had not seen your post until just now, nor looked at the R3 Twitter page before, but I was astonished to see nearly every other Twit item using "beautiful" or a similar approbation.

[french frank]

Interesting point: my view is that R3 presenters should maintain a critical perspective. Expressing a personal opinion is 'critical' if it can be backed up with examples/supporting evidence or an explanation as to why the opinion is held.

A statement that either a performance or piece of music is 'beautiful' is not criticism. It may be a statement of personal opinion, but it may only be that certain presenters feel it is part of their role to praise what they're presenting.

I have no objection to a statement such as: "Well, I'm sure you heard the audience roar of approval for what, in my opinion, was indeed a wonderful performance by X."

[Wallace]

"When I hear the word beautiful I reach for the off switch."

I share your concern and it grates with me too. I find it regrettable that use of hyperbole is becoming a normal part of spoken English It is now not unusual to hear it from academics whom you might have expected to know better. Recently I started to watch a programme about the Inca presented by an archaeologist from the UK but I reached for the off button after less the 3 minutes having heard that an explorer had been astonished by the sight of vast terraces and the effect on him had been dazzling, like a dream. We were promised a remarkable tale about an incredible empire set in some of the toughest landscapes on the planet that would be absolutely fascinating. Fundamentally, we were told, it was to be a story about an empire unlike any other. That was enough for me.

However this is what many viewers want, even apparently on BBC Four as it is the way they speak to each other. Incredibly has replaced very and absolutely is used in place of yes. Should Radio 3 take a stand against it? I feel it should but those who call the shots at the BBC probably would not even recognise the problem because it is how they too talk to each other.

Does anyone know if this excessive use of hyperbole found among speakers of languages other than English? In Germany is the mundane always now unglaublich?

[kernelbogey]

Interesting point: my view is that R3 presenters should maintain a critical perspective. Expressing a personal opinion is 'critical' if it can be backed up with examples/supporting evidence or an explanation as to why the opinion is held.

A statement that either a performance or piece of music is 'beautiful' is not criticism. It may be a statement of personal opinion, but it may only be that certain presenters feel it is part of their role to praise what they're presenting.

I have no objection to a statement such as: "Well, I'm sure you heard the audience roar of approval for what, in my opinion, was indeed a wonderful performance by X."

I share your concern and it grates with me too. I find it regrettable that use of hyperbole is becoming a normal part of spoken English It is now not unusual to hear it from academics whom you might have expected to know better. Recently I started to watch a programme about the Inca presented by an archaeologist from the UK but I reached for the off button after less the 3 minutes having heard that an explorer had been astonished by the sight of vast terraces and the effect on him had been dazzling, like a dream. We were promised a remarkable tale about an incredible empire set in some of the toughest landscapes on the planet that would be absolutely fascinating. Fundamentally, we were told, it was to be a story about an empire unlike any other. That was enough for me.

I think this is to do with the fact (about which I bang on) that tv programmes are image-led, so I imagine producers feel the need to have the presenters comment on the 'dazzling' terraces and 'toughest' landscapes because that is what we are seeing (cue: presenter walking towards camera, gesticulating).

I suspect that academic presenters may offer draft scipts which are considered to need the addition of such language by producers, who imhv are responsible for this nonsense.

I've just acquired my first television in more than twenty years and just a few evenings' viewing has demonstrated exactly why I had avoided owning one. For example, in the generally interesting three or four Stargazing Live programmes on last week's eclipse, a number of pre-recorded sections were screened in which a presenter explained some techinical or scientific aspect; invariably their words were accompanied by a background of what I'd call 'drum and bass' type music at a low level. I do not understand this habit of producers, who seem to think that without a music background we will be unwilling or unable to absorb the words.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've just acquired my first television in more than twenty years and just a few evenings' viewing has demonstrated exactly why I had avoided owning one. For example, in the generally interesting three or four Stargazing Live programmes on last week's eclipse, a number of pre-recorded sections were screened in which a presenter explained some techinical or scientific aspect; invariably their words were accompanied by a background of what I'd call 'drum and bass' type music at a low level. I do not understand this habit of producers, who seem to think that without a music background we will be unwilling or unable to absorb the words.

This is apparent on radio too. On Radio 5 Live, they add the intrusive drum-and-bass noise pollution during weather bulletins, news headlines and, inevitably, trailers.

[ahinton]

I share your concern and it grates with me too. I find it regrettable that use of hyperbole is becoming a normal part of spoken English It is now not unusual to hear it from academics whom you might have expected to know better. Recently I started to watch a programme about the Inca presented by an archaeologist from the UK but I reached for the off button after less the 3 minutes having heard that an explorer had been astonished by the sight of vast terraces and the effect on him had been dazzling, like a dream. We were promised a remarkable tale about an incredible empire set in some of the toughest landscapes on the planet that would be absolutely fascinating. Fundamentally, we were told, it was to be a story about an empire unlike any other. That was enough for me.

At least in this instance the presenter seems to have made clear that he was presenting his personal opinions in the bit that you watched prior to switching off, but the point is nevertheless well made and there's far too much of this gushing and wholly unnecessary stuff, presumably in the hope of raising audience figures despite that fact that it can have the very opposite effect, as it has done on you and many others.

[ahinton]

'toughest' landscapes

Landscape doesn't get tougher than this...

in the generally interesting three or four Stargazing Live programmes on last week's eclipse, a number of pre-recorded sections were screened in which a presenter explained some techinical or scientific aspect; invariably their words were accompanied by a background of what I'd call 'drum and bass' type music at a low level. I do not understand this habit of producers, who seem to think that without a music background we will be unwilling or unable to absorb the words.

Indeed; I don't understand it either. In an entirely different context, to Rachmaninov's bemoaning of the length of his fourth and final piano concerto in a letter to its dedicatee Medtner, Medtner countered it in his response by asking whether music is so bad a thing that the less of it the better? Had Medtner had the misfortune to witness how music is nowadays all too often pressed into disservice in cases such as that which you mention (and such cases are legion), he might have thought more about that statement in a wider context...

[french frank]

I do not understand this habit of producers, who seem to think that without a music background we will be unwilling or unable to absorb the words.

I mused on that this morning. Walking down the street at 8am, I saw a neighbour emerging from his house, putting on his headphones. To listen to the news? I tend to doubt it. Far from showing how important music IS, as an art (tbd) form - it seems to me to mark its debasement. It really is of the same importance as wallpaper.

[aeolium]

Interesting point: my view is that R3 presenters should maintain a critical perspective. Expressing a personal opinion is 'critical' if it can be backed up with examples/supporting evidence or an explanation as to why the opinion is held....

I have no objection to a statement such as: "Well, I'm sure you heard the audience roar of approval for what, in my opinion, was indeed a wonderful performance by X."

Possibly not, but such an opinion (expressed by the presenter) surely only gains credence if it is believed by the audience to be honestly expressed. The same presenter would almost certainly not make a comment like "I'm sure you heard the tepid applause for what, in my opinion, was a disappointing performance by X" - not if he wanted to keep his job. And the proliferation of hyperbolic statements of praise simply devalues their impact, to the point where they are regarded as simply an extension of marketing (the BBC can't have you thinking that you just wasted an hour or so of your time listening to one of their concerts). So really, there is no point in the presenter expressing any opinion; the best course is to leave the audience to make up their own minds, which they will anyway.

[ahinton]

I mused on that this morning. Walking down the street at 8am, I saw a neighbour emerging from his house, putting on his headphones. To listen to the news? I tend to doubt it. Far from showing how important music IS, as an art (tbd) form - it seems to me to mark its debasement. It really is of the same importance as wallpaper.

I couldn't agree more! - and a worrying trend indeed it is...

[MrGongGong]

I mused on that this morning. Walking down the street at 8am, I saw a neighbour emerging from his house, putting on his headphones. To listen to the news? I tend to doubt it. Far from showing how important music IS, as an art (tbd) form - it seems to me to mark its debasement. It really is of the same importance as wallpaper.

Surely music has many functions?
"Wallpaper" (Satie?) being one of them
I don't necessarily think that having 'background music' diminishes other musics.
When I accidentally hear the sports news on the radio I find the 'bed' of sound behind much more interesting than the 'news' (I particularly like the R2 hi-hat/shaker one that moves from side to side, if only they would shut up about football then I could grab a bit for a piece)


NOT entirely serious

[richardfinegold]

I've been enjoying Telemann's Tablemusik over the last couple of weeks. Admittedly, I've been using it as background music while I do some light tasks at home. What of it? The music was actually intended to perform such a function, as were many works of Haydn and Mozart. Great music has always served as background for other activities.