Sunday Morning

[Irrelohe]

For a while I've been thinking that Sunday Morning is a pretty good programme with a good choice of interesting music and well-presented for the most part. However, alarm bells rang this morning. At the time I was listening Rob Cowan seemed to be in full 'interactive' mode reading out tweets and e-mails from people who might've been better off listening rather than tweeting and e-mailing (I really didn't need to know that Hugh thought the Tippett Fantasia was "Corelli murdered", nor that somebody else remembered it being used as a film theme).

But my heart really sank when I heard Rob announce a new feature coming up called 'Sunday Supplement' where listeners choose pieces of music (I must admit I missed the details as I was groaning too loudly). Clearly the Sunday Morning 'interactive' box hasn't been ticked strongly enough. I know one shouldn't pre-judge but did anyone else's heart sink too at the news?

I think the (cringeworthy) idea is that listeners suggest pieces of music which they think are appropriate for Sunday mornings. Perhaps board members would like to contact the BBC with suggestions. How about a rousing rendition of Ameriques? Or Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum (complete, of course)? I am sure there are lots of other ideas out there.

[french frank]

Clearly the Sunday Morning 'interactive' box hasn't been ticked strongly enough.

Thre's a clearly false assumption that the programme/presenter is interacting with "the audience". Each tweet/text &c is interacting with one person, and if there are 20 tweets during the programme that's interacting with 20 listeners. One would hope "the audience" was made up of rather more than that (though with the response 'interactivity' gets here, it may be reduced to 20 listeners if they continue with it).

Even Zucchini appears to agree that the tweets are uninteresting. Which is interesting.

[Zucchini]

No, they are not. The whole point of ‘interactive’ is that you become part of the programme by ‘talking to’ the presenter. The concept is entirely individual presenter centred. Whereas the posts on this forum during a concert are more like the posters thinking aloud and nothing to do with becoming part of a radio programme. There are few things that make my heart sink deeper than the word interactive.

For God's sake you've missed the point entirely - hmvman commented that Cowan was "receiving tweets and e-mails from people who might've been better off listening rather than tweeting and e-mailing".

I said that some people here do just the same and feel a need to post short and trivial messages when they might also be better off listening to a concert which is in full flow.

I made no comment whatsoever about similarities or differences between messages that are broadcast and messages that are posted here.

(same response applies to fern...)

[french frank]

I said that some people here do just the same and feel a need to post short and trivial messages when they might also be better off listening to a concert which is in full flow.

Not quite sure whether you're saying that between approx 7.30pm and 9.30pm everyone should log out of the forum (and any other of their internet devices) and listen to the concert; or, if they are listening to the concert anyway, they should not be online and not post their 'tweets' here?

I don't think that many members tweet their running commentaries during the concert, do they? compared with the number who are online at any given time. One? Two? Three?

[hmvman]

For God's sake you've missed the point entirely - hmvman commented that Cowan was "receiving tweets and e-mails from people who might've been better off listening rather than tweeting and e-mailing".

Although the discussion has centred on my comment about the e-mails and tweets, the main point of my post was that an otherwise enjoyable programme was being spoilt by the need to appear 'interactive' with the audience and that I'm concerned that the enjoyment will be spoilt further by the introduction of a new strand of interactivity.

[Roehre]

...
I don't think that many members tweet their running commentaries during the concert, do they? compared with the number who are online at any given time. One? Two? Three?

I am afraid it's more than that , and not only restricted to R3 concerts (live or otherwise) but also during "listening" to CDs and other media. I fear quite a lot of music is actually heard -used as a kind of background or as part of multitasking, hence not really listened to.

[french frank]

I am afraid it's more than that , and not only restricted to R3 concerts (live or otherwise) but also during "listening" to CDs and other media. I fear quite a lot of music is actually heard -used as a kind of background or as part of multitasking, hence not really listened to.

In fact, I would say that if someone at home tweets their thoughts while listening to their own CDs (or the radio), that is simply a different kind of listening, not unlike taking notes - listening which serves a different purpose from listening merely for the 'experience', or enjoyment. Unlike at a concert, it doesn't detract from the listening experience of anyone else.

At home, someone might well listen to a single movement, first in one interpretation, then in another; yet if they are settling down to listen for the 'enjoyment' - on a CD or radio - they would hate it.

My '1, 2 or 3?' was referring specifically to people listening to the R3 concerts, since I thought that was what Zucchini was criticising. My impression was that there wasn't that much response on the forum while the R3 concert was on [could be that they weren't listening!]?

[doversoul1]

I said that some people here do just the same and feel a need to post short and trivial messages when they might also be better off listening to a concert which is in full flow.

I think most people who post here during the concert know the work well enough and probably listening for some particular points. Posting on the forum is like making a note, which is one way of listening. Whereas, I guess, people send in twitter or emails do it because they like the sense (the intended illusion?) of being connected to the presenter, the programme, the community or whatever. Two activities are very different.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This morning, in a break from the inevitable grovelling for texts, e-mails and tweets, we heard a couple of Mozart piano sonatas (and I mean the complete sonatas). The second of these was the Grieg 2-piano version of K.545, in which Mozart's original is played on piano 1, just as the composer left it, with piano 2 adding some rather wonderful elaborations. Before we climb too high on the horse-of-great-vertical-proportions, Grieg was only doing what Mozart himself had done to Handel's Messiah, and it's great to hear what one great composer can do with another's music.

Of the Grieg arrangements, I think his finest is the one he made of the Mozart Fantasia in C minor, K. 475.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

They were both lower price reissue labels. Ace of Clubs in the mono era was a bid by Decca to counter the new record clubs, such as World Record Club (hence the clever name). They used deleted recordings from the full price LXT series.

Ace of Diamonds, the equivalent stereo label, started in 1965, being reissues of deleted full price SXL items.

The latter label did include some new recordings, rather than reissues, later in the 1970s.

I've just picked up on this one. The above is accurate, but there was one anomaly: Ansermet's Beethoven 9 was issued on Ace of Clubs in mono, but the complete symphony cycle had been recorded in stereo. When the Ace of Diamonds label was introduced, all 9 symphonies were issued in stereo, with only 1-8 in mono, as the 9th was already on Ace of Clubs.

[french frank]

Of the Grieg arrangements, I think his finest is the one he made of the Mozart Fantasia in C minor, K. 475.

For me, that would not be praise for his arrangements . À chacun son goût (K.475 is one of my favourite Mzt pieces) :-)

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

judging by the commentary later on concerning Mozart improvising to a blank page for one of his violin sonatas i am pretty certain that Mozart would never have played any piano music the same way twice .... his own or another composer's work .... no matter what huff the Emperor was in ...

and i bet he would have improvised on a third piano to the Grieg arrangement!

[Don Petter]

I've just picked up on this one. The above is accurate, but there was one anomaly: Ansermet's Beethoven 9 was issued on Ace of Clubs in mono, but the complete symphony cycle had been recorded in stereo. When the Ace of Diamonds label was introduced, all 9 symphonies were issued in stereo, with only 1-8 in mono, as the 9th was already on Ace of Clubs.

And you're reminding me that I should have mentioned that there were mono Ace of Diamonds (ADD) as well as the stereo ones (SDD).

[Richard Tarleton]

Something very strange this morning. I switched on during the Woodbird scene from Siegfried, very obviously the Solti with J Sutherland (and W Windgassen), only for RC at the end to say that was his Sunday afternoon listening sorted, that was from Siegfried, with WW and Birgit Nielsen. Puzzled, I went back to the Sunday Times. Shortly afterwards RC said he'd been inundated with emails and tweets pointing out it was the Woodbird scene, and as explanation telling us what it "said on the label". What on earth had he been listening to? Was he listening at all? Had he slipped out of the studio for a comfort break? All very odd.

Actually he's been trying to break the record for number of tweets read out. I'm off for a walk.

[antongould]

Something very strange this morning. I switched on during the Woodbird scene from Siegfried, very obviously the Solti with J Sutherland (and W Windgassen), only for RC at the end to say that was his Sunday afternoon listening sorted, that was from Siegfried, with WW and Birgit Nielsen. Puzzled, I went back to the Sunday Times. Shortly afterwards RC said he'd been inundated with emails and tweets pointing out it was the Woodbird scene, and as explanation telling us what it "said on the label". What on earth had he been listening to? Was he listening at all? Had he slipped out of the studio for a comfort break? All very odd.

Actually he's been trying to break the record for number of tweets read out. I'm off for a walk.

Me too Richard and very pleasant in the, kids back at school, weather we are enjoying suddenly in the pit heaps. With Rumpole's Bach for company better than - stops himself criticising a national treasure .....