The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

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  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22110

    Originally posted by DaisyDog View Post
    Yes indeed, the Cornishman is back. The Georgia Mann was on the previous day, filling in I expect. She misattributed a piece by Poulenc to Dvorak. Probably by misreading the CD notes and not listening. Inexcusable for such an allegedly hotshot producer/presenter.
    I guess you're not that keen on her whether she gets it right or not. Then 'appen that's how it goes.

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    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
      Gone fishin'
      • Sep 2011
      • 30163

      Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
      True.
      I should perhaps have said understandable not excusable: excusable in the sense that I could see how it happened.
      (I enjoyed the extract very much too, not having heard that recording before, so maybe that put me in a good and forgiving mood. )
      No - I've not expressed myself very well. I'm at a disadvantage in that (like DaisyDog it appears) I didn't listen to the programme, but my suggestion is that calling the Stravinsky movement "Stravinsky's Capriccio" isn't a "slip" at all ("understandable" "excusable" "unforgivable" or whatever) any more than calling the Mozart example "Mozart's Rondo" would have been - given that Mozart wrote individual works with the title "Rondo", just as Igor did with "Capriccio" (and just as BWV 538 is also "Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor"). It might need clarification, but it isn't a "slip".
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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      • Pulcinella
        Host
        • Feb 2014
        • 10872

        Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
        No - I've not expressed myself very well. I'm at a disadvantage in that (like DaisyDog it appears) I didn't listen to the programme, but my suggestion is that calling the Stravinsky movement "Stravinsky's Capriccio" isn't a "slip" at all ("understandable" "excusable" "unforgivable" or whatever) any more than calling the Mozart example "Mozart's Rondo" would have been - given that Mozart wrote individual works with the title "Rondo", just as Igor did with "Capriccio" (and just as BWV 538 is also "Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor"). It might need clarification, but it isn't a "slip".
        Not worth getting hung up about, and I can't remember what she actually said, but I would maintain that 'That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio', when you might be expecting a pianist rather than a violinist, ideally needs a little more than 'clarification'.

        Interesting concept, though, to have a violin arrangement of the Capriccio. We'll be having BBM doing a brass band version next!

        Comment

        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
          Not worth getting hung up about, and I can't remember what she actually said, but I would maintain that 'That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio', when you might be expecting a pianist rather than a violinist, ideally needs a little more than 'clarification'.
          "That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio, the final movement of his Violin Concerto"? (But, yes, if all she said was "That was Stravinsky's Capriccio, superbly played by the magnificent Hilary Hahn. Next on Breakfast the marvellously effervescent Mozart Rondo ... ", then; well, yeah.)

          Interesting concept, though, to have a violin arrangement of the Capriccio. We'll be having BBM doing a brass band version next!
          ... or, indeed, the Violin Concerto!
          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30206

            Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
            But perhaps I dropped off or misheard too.
            Couldn't say, I'm sure (I mean, I'm quite sure I couldn't say) I only checked the Poulenc and the Dvoƙák as they formed the basis of the criticism. But I'll take your word for it!
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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            • Pulcinella
              Host
              • Feb 2014
              • 10872

              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              ... or, indeed, the Violin Concerto!
              Good idea.
              It would certainly have avoided the original 'that's impossible' comment about the opening chord if the notes had been given to other instruments instead!

              Comment

              • DaisyDog
                Full Member
                • Jun 2016
                • 54

                So that’s what happened, dozing on the job! No excuse, but I do find Sweet Georgia’s voice a tad soporific, too dark in timbre for my ears. I prefer the champagne lightness of La Skelly to the milk-stout richness of G-M. But I must try to stay awake in future.

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                • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                  Gone fishin'
                  • Sep 2011
                  • 30163

                  Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                  Good idea.
                  It would certainly have avoided the original 'that's impossible' comment about the opening chord if the notes had been given to other instruments instead!
                  - I was thinking of a "Concerto for Violin & Brass Band", but to distribute the solo line amongst the band ... oh, crumbs! I'll be thinking about that all day now!
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30206

                    Let us be quite clear here , Pulcinella does have a point or, at the least, a pointette:

                    GM-S (on Stravinsky) announces 'A Capriccio, from his violin concerto in D'

                    Back announcement: 'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the 4th movement of Stravinsky's Capriccio'

                    The aficionados who listen to Breakfast will be more than aware, of course, that the Capriccio for piano and orchestra has only three movements, so that their confusion will last no more than a moment; but the back announcement should indeed have been reshuffled to be:

                    'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the Capriccio, the 4th movement of Stravinsky's violin concerto in D. For violin and orchestra.'
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                      Gone fishin'
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 30163

                      Originally posted by french frank View Post
                      Back announcement: 'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the 4th movement of Stravinsky's Capriccio'
                      Aha! That's not merely a "slip" - that's just plain darned wrong!
                      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                      • Pulcinella
                        Host
                        • Feb 2014
                        • 10872

                        Vindicated!

                        Last edited by Pulcinella; 23-06-17, 09:30.

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                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30206

                          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                          Aha! That's not merely a "slip" - that's just plain darned wrong!
                          But slips are by definition 'wrong', aren't they - insofar as they mean 'mistakes'?
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                            Gone fishin'
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 30163

                            Originally posted by french frank View Post
                            But slips are by definition 'wrong', aren't they - insofar as they mean 'mistakes'?
                            Oh, yes - but there's a difference in degree between being "wrong" and being "just plain darned wrong". "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "slip" - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" is "just plain darned wrong"!
                            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                            • ahinton
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 16122

                              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                              Oh, yes - but there's a difference in degree between being "wrong" and being "just plain darned wrong". "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "slip" - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" is "just plain darned wrong"!
                              !!! "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "typo" (B being adjacent to N on a standard keyboard) - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" may be "just plain darned wishful thinking", peut-ĂȘtre?...

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                              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                                Gone fishin'
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 30163

                                And St Ian of Skelly is himself not immune from being just plain darned wrong; during yesterday's Lunchtime concert broadcast he referred to Lachenmann as being "associated with Musique concrete" - which is rather akin to describing the late Tony Warren as a writer of operas.
                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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