The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[cloughie]

Yes indeed, the Cornishman is back. The Georgia Mann was on the previous day, filling in I expect. She misattributed a piece by Poulenc to Dvorak. Probably by misreading the CD notes and not listening. Inexcusable for such an allegedly hotshot producer/presenter.

I guess you're not that keen on her whether she gets it right or not. Then 'appen that's how it goes.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

True.
I should perhaps have said understandable not excusable: excusable in the sense that I could see how it happened.
(I enjoyed the extract very much too, not having heard that recording before, so maybe that put me in a good and forgiving mood. )

No - I've not expressed myself very well. I'm at a disadvantage in that (like DaisyDog it appears) I didn't listen to the programme, but my suggestion is that calling the Stravinsky movement "Stravinsky's Capriccio" isn't a "slip" at all ("understandable" "excusable" "unforgivable" or whatever) any more than calling the Mozart example "Mozart's Rondo" would have been - given that Mozart wrote individual works with the title "Rondo", just as Igor did with "Capriccio" (and just as BWV 538 is also "Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor"). It might need clarification, but it isn't a "slip".

[Pulcinella]

No - I've not expressed myself very well. I'm at a disadvantage in that (like DaisyDog it appears) I didn't listen to the programme, but my suggestion is that calling the Stravinsky movement "Stravinsky's Capriccio" isn't a "slip" at all ("understandable" "excusable" "unforgivable" or whatever) any more than calling the Mozart example "Mozart's Rondo" would have been - given that Mozart wrote individual works with the title "Rondo", just as Igor did with "Capriccio" (and just as BWV 538 is also "Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor"). It might need clarification, but it isn't a "slip".

Not worth getting hung up about, and I can't remember what she actually said, but I would maintain that 'That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio', when you might be expecting a pianist rather than a violinist, ideally needs a little more than 'clarification'.

Interesting concept, though, to have a violin arrangement of the Capriccio. We'll be having BBM doing a brass band version next!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not worth getting hung up about, and I can't remember what she actually said, but I would maintain that 'That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio', when you might be expecting a pianist rather than a violinist, ideally needs a little more than 'clarification'.

"That was Hilary Hahn playing Stravinsky's Capriccio, the final movement of his Violin Concerto"? (But, yes, if all she said was "That was Stravinsky's Capriccio, superbly played by the magnificent Hilary Hahn. Next on Breakfast the marvellously effervescent Mozart Rondo ... ", then; well, yeah.)

Interesting concept, though, to have a violin arrangement of the Capriccio. We'll be having BBM doing a brass band version next!

... or, indeed, the Violin Concerto!

[french frank]

But perhaps I dropped off or misheard too.

Couldn't say, I'm sure (I mean, I'm quite sure I couldn't say) I only checked the Poulenc and the Dvořák as they formed the basis of the criticism. But I'll take your word for it!

[Pulcinella]

... or, indeed, the Violin Concerto!

Good idea.
It would certainly have avoided the original 'that's impossible' comment about the opening chord if the notes had been given to other instruments instead!

[DaisyDog]

So that’s what happened, dozing on the job! No excuse, but I do find Sweet Georgia’s voice a tad soporific, too dark in timbre for my ears. I prefer the champagne lightness of La Skelly to the milk-stout richness of G-M. But I must try to stay awake in future.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Good idea.
It would certainly have avoided the original 'that's impossible' comment about the opening chord if the notes had been given to other instruments instead!

- I was thinking of a "Concerto for Violin & Brass Band", but to distribute the solo line amongst the band ... oh, crumbs! I'll be thinking about that all day now!

[french frank]

Let us be quite clear here , Pulcinella does have a point or, at the least, a pointette:

GM-S (on Stravinsky) announces 'A Capriccio, from his violin concerto in D'

Back announcement: 'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the 4th movement of Stravinsky's Capriccio'

The aficionados who listen to Breakfast will be more than aware, of course, that the Capriccio for piano and orchestra has only three movements, so that their confusion will last no more than a moment; but the back announcement should indeed have been reshuffled to be:

'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the Capriccio, the 4th movement of Stravinsky's violin concerto in D. For violin and orchestra.'

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Back announcement: 'Hilary Hahn was the violinist in the 4th movement of Stravinsky's Capriccio'

Aha! That's not merely a "slip" - that's just plain darned wrong!

[Pulcinella]

Vindicated!

[french frank]

Aha! That's not merely a "slip" - that's just plain darned wrong!

But slips are by definition 'wrong', aren't they - insofar as they mean 'mistakes'?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But slips are by definition 'wrong', aren't they - insofar as they mean 'mistakes'?

Oh, yes - but there's a difference in degree between being "wrong" and being "just plain darned wrong". "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "slip" - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" is "just plain darned wrong"!

[ahinton]

Oh, yes - but there's a difference in degree between being "wrong" and being "just plain darned wrong". "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "slip" - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" is "just plain darned wrong"!

!!! "The Eroica Symphony is by Neethoven" is a "typo" (B being adjacent to N on a standard keyboard) - "The Eroica Symphony is by Debussy" may be "just plain darned wishful thinking", peut-être?...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And St Ian of Skelly is himself not immune from being just plain darned wrong; during yesterday's Lunchtime concert broadcast he referred to Lachenmann as being "associated with Musique concrete" - which is rather akin to describing the late Tony Warren as a writer of operas.