The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[rallentando]

Couldn't agree more, ff. Your points are the essence of good sense & it would (might?) be worth readership here signalling their support since heads at BH, we understand, do look in.

[salymap]

Rallentando, I certainly second that, but we old members expect sense from ff 99.9% ofthe time. {just to leave my options open, ff }

[antongould]

Well although my post may suggest otherwise I signal my support. FF's reply is, as I have come to expect, well argued and the BBC really should listen. We all, after all, love the station and whilst I can maybe take more chat and individual pieces than most I am totally in support of the arguments that I'm sure the paper will contain.

[Eudaimonia]

There doesn't appear to have been any evidence, c 1990, that R3 was losing audience, and there is nil evidence that it has gained audience by 'changing its style'. It may attract some, it loses others.

What if these were pragmatic, strategic choices--decisions undertaken largely to ward off accusations of the dreaded "e-word" and preserve funding? Who knows what kind of scenario we might be facing if they refused to pay lip-service to "changing with the times" and continued as before. As I've said, the one thing you can be sure of is that there's a lot more going on than meets the layperson's eye.

Besides, haven't they pulled back a bit? Compare an advert from 2009:

http://video.creativematch.com/video/iLyROoafJOX4.html

From one by Paul Hancock from a few years ago (before they changed the logo):

http://vimeo.com/20061975

Say what you will, these two spots are targeting radically different audiences-- and the fact that they've reverted to the mainstream ought to tell you something.

Curious, what was it that made you give up on Radio 4? Has anyone noticed any significant changes to R4 since 1990? There was a brief period in 2004-05 where I listened to R4 every day... I tried a long stretch again recently, and I must say the humor seemed more coarse and "laddish" than I remember. Has it really gone downhill? I hope it was just a bad sample.

AG: I think the best shot we have at getting the BBC to listen is to tell them something they haven't heard before.

I'm convinced there's a need for someone to sponsor independent, original audience research conducted by reputable firms. By "reputable firms" I mean the ones who have their names plastered all over the Trust reports-- why not ring a few of them and see if anyone is interested in being commissioned by "an independent listeners' watchdog group", and if so, how much it would cost?

Getting real answers to these questions would be an incredibly valuable public service. They're not releasing data? Get out there and hire the same professionals they use to collect your own.

As for funding, all you'd have to do is open a FoR3 Paypal account and I'm sure you'd have donations streaming in from every direction. Even if it were just to fund the paper you're contemplating, I'll bet every single person in this thread would contribute something to show his or her support.

Oh well, just a thought. It's your shindig.

[mercia]

This morning the celebrity, Charlie Higson, will be giving us parts of Bantock's Sappho and Malcolm Arnold's Fifth symphony, so that's a bit different isn't it.

[antongould]

Eudaimonia
You obviously have much, much more faith in the independence and indeed competence of consultants, as a wide generic term, than I have!

[Norfolk Born]

This morning the celebrity, Charlie Higson, will be giving us parts of Bantock's Sappho and Malcolm Arnold's Fifth symphony, so that's a bit different isn't it.

Perhaps parts of me might tune in - but then again... Is it just parts of Sappho - Spo perhaps - and all of the Malcolm Arnold?

[french frank]

Curious, what was it that made you give up on Radio 4?

I preferred R3.

Has anyone noticed any significant changes to R4 since 1990?

I refer my Honourable Friend to Jenny Abramsky's James Cameron Memorial Lecture, 2002, where she (then Director of Audio and Music) said:

"So, in 1998, when the new Controller of Radio 4 James Boyle, imposed wholesale change to the network it was not surprising he encountered hostility on a scale rarely seen in the BBC.

Radio is your friend. It is the soundtrack to your life. When it changes, it affects your life.

Everything was changed at once. It was too much for the producers and too much for the audience. Many switched off.

The comedy was poor, some of the new magazine programmes were just not good enough. Some of the producers failed to understand their audiences. There were too many substandard quizzes and even Today did not seem to know how to fill its extra hour effectively."

Of course, she didn't say any of this publicly until after Boyle had departed.

It is my opinion that Radio 3's style should be dictated by its content and public purpose, not what audience research 'shows people want'. The Trust's review considered the opinions of people who didn't listen to Radio 3 and weren't interested in classical music. It invited them to listen to selected programmes and say what they thought of the station. Now, to my way of thinking, they have built their (desired) conclusions into their methodology, haven't they?

[mercia]

Perhaps parts of me might tune in - but then again... Is it just parts of Sappho - Spo perhaps - and all of the Malcolm Arnold?

well originally I was going to write "part of Sappho and part of the 5th Symphony", then decided it was inelegant to have "part" twice. so then it became the ambiguous "parts of Sappho and the 5th symphony"

[Bax-of-Delights]

Thumbs up for the Bantock: Sappho prelude. A trifle surprised SMP said she had never heard it before.

But thumbs down for yet another airing of the Tallis Fantasia.

[Norfolk Born]

The Tallis Fantasia is probably the work I would choose to have on my desert island when cruelly forced by Kirsty Young to limit myself to one record. But I don't want to have it popping up on the radio quite as often as it does. The same goes for 'The Lark Ascending'.
While on the subject of Desert Island Discs, the first guest in the new series is ex-President Bartlet, aka Martin Sheen. I shall definitely tune in for that!

[Suffolkcoastal]

[QUOTE=OFCACHAP;42023]The Tallis Fantasia is probably the work I would choose to have on my desert island when cruelly forced by Kirsty Young to limit myself to one record. But I don't want to have it popping up on the radio quite as often as it does. The same goes for 'The Lark Ascending'.

Both works currently account for a third of the RVW broadcast so far this year and if you add the English Folk Song Suite and The Wasps Overture you get half of the RVW broadcast this year on R3 consisting of just 4 works.

[salymap]

At least we have been spared single movements of RVW's symphonies. That would be the end.

[Suffolkcoastal]

We've only had three of his symphonies broadcast so far this year 2, 5 & 8 and nos 2 & 8 were 'hidden away' on TTN.

[Norfolk Born]

At least we have been spared single movements of RVW's symphonies. That would be the end.

Or the beginning...or the middle.