The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

R3 is a "classical" music station. As far as I am aware that is, and always has been, its remit.

I believe that your awareness is at fault here - Jazz has always been a feature of R3 and its Third Programme predecessor.

[HARRIET HAVARD]

No one would argue with that. But what Penn is rightly pointing out is that the accepted remit of the station is that it is a station for "classical" music. I doubt if anyone objects to the jazz progs on the station. (But am sure there would be many who would object if the balance was increased). What we do object to is the infiltration of other genre into the mainstream of the station- and its associated presentational style.

[Ted Eakins]

What I presume you are saying- not very clearly- is that Harriet is exaggerating.

Yes, of course up to a point she is. But only up to a point. Surely no one would argue that R3 has not "dumbed down" considerably over the past few years, would they? A process that continues with no bottom to the pit in sight.

Yes, some of the evening concerts are still memorable- although many are not. As with so much in the R3 schedules (especially Breakfast and Essential Classics) one has to kiss an awful lot of frogs to find a Prince. If the rot had only set in with these two shows, reluctantly, I would guess most of us could live with it. Unfortunately the rot seems to increasingly be spreading throughout the station.

More and more the content of the station falls into the catagories of light music, easy listening, film music etc- what someone recently described to me as the John Wilsonisation of the station- none of which, in my opinion, has any place on R3. After all, can you imagine the outcry if any of this stuff was put out on R1. It just wouldn't happen. But, as Harriet has hinted, there is a perfectly good home for this- and jazz for that matter....R2 (The Light Programme).

You mentioned Composer of the Week, presumably in the context of a programme that "get's it right". Yes, again up to a point. But even that show can't resist going off the rails every now and again. A few weeks ago we had "The Big Bands" as CoftheW. What was that all about? We have even had John Williams featured!

Yes, all in all I think Harriet has made a good point. There is obviously a market for easy listening, with it's car salesman/woman presentational style. But do we really want, or need, to have that on R3?

I have to agree with you Penn. You sum up my thoughts completely.

[french frank]

No one would argue with that. But what Penn is rightly pointing out is that the accepted remit of the station is that it is a station for "classical" music. I doubt if anyone objects to the jazz progs on the station. (But am sure there would be many who would object if the balance was increased). What we do object to is the infiltration of other genre into the mainstream of the station- and its associated presentational style.

Would you like to write a critique of today's playlist:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0506hzk

Neither Penn Igor nor Harriet Havard (and now Ted Eakins - welcome to the forum, TE) is saying anything very different from what people have been saying on this forum and elsewhere for years. Maybe it's just that since people no longer listen, there are fewer criticisms? The FoR3 survey results will go to the Controller in a week or so. It presumes to make recommendations, it asks questions, and it will be hoped that he will agree to a meeting to discuss the important issues.

[teamsaint]

No one would argue with that. But what Penn is rightly pointing out is that the accepted remit of the station is that it is a station for "classical" music. I doubt if anyone objects to the jazz progs on the station. (But am sure there would be many who would object if the balance was increased). What we do object to is the infiltration of other genre into the mainstream of the station- and its associated presentational style.

Surely the quantity of classical music on R3 cant be the problem?
Almost every weekday there are 21.5 hours of programming that is almost all classical music.
Looking at the weekend ahead, its about 20 hours per day. Film music doesnt really impinge much into the regular schedules from what I hear, and in any case some of it may be worthy of a place in the schedule.
As for the variety of music, well that is another issue.

presentational styles aren't a function of the music played, but of a management decision making process, IMO.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

No one would argue with that. But what Penn is rightly pointing out is that the accepted remit of the station is that it is a station for "classical" music. I doubt if anyone objects to the jazz progs on the station. (But am sure there would be many who would object if the balance was increased). What we do object to is the infiltration of other genre into the mainstream of the station- and its associated presentational style.

sorry but i do not think that it was ever the case that the Third P or R3 were 'for classical music'

the remit has always been wider than that although various shifts have occurred

see wicki history Third and R3... i do recommend 'The Envy of The World' as an indispensable source

the identity and nature of the service has always been debated, sometimes with menace

at the time of Broadcasting in The Seventies Curran said

Curran had earlier dismissed any suggestion that Radio 3's small audience was a consideration: "What is decisive is whether there is a worthwhile audience, and I mean by worthwhile an audience which will get an enormous satisfaction out of it.

not a point of view that carries much sway these days is my guess

it may be that the best thing that could happen to the BBC is to split the TV from the radio ... all the careerist meedja types would be in TV and the enthusiasts could run the radio after flogging R1 ... NPR is the USA is an inspiration in many ways

[french frank]

This is the first broadcast of Radio 3, 30 September, 1967 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/radio3/1967-09-30

We have a morning of music (classical) from 8am until 12 noon then
Jazz Record Requests
and from 12.30pm we present the Sport Service, with

Sailing
Golf
Swimming
Racing
Association Football
(Soccer Results at 4.42*)
Sports Parade

We then have 55 mins of Bach
A theological talk and
Folk music of Czechoslovakia - compiled and presented by none other than AL Lloyd
Then a concert
A talk on theoretical physics
More concert
A programme about the poet Abraham Cowley
Some Mozart
The news

CLOSEDOWN

[AndyJW]

They had to share frequencies then (no digital channels for sport etc.)
How do I access the FoR3 survey?

[french frank]

They had to share frequencies then (no digital channels for sport etc.)
How do I access the FoR3 survey?

Send me a PM confirming your email address.

[aeolium]

This is the first broadcast of Radio 3, 30 September, 1967 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/radio3/1967-09-30
....

It's worth also remembering that a number of well-known musicians and writers on music, notably Hans Keller and Robert Simpson, warned at the time of the Third Programme's replacement by Radio 3 of the dangers of a radio station simply churning out hour upon hour of classical music, arguing that this posed the risk that such music would merely become an aural background leading to (in Keller's words) "an infinite postponability of concentration". Yet some here have called for precisely such a station, playing almost non-stop classical music, and in their disappointment have apparently sought out other stations on the internet closer to their ideal.

[muzzer]

"an infinite postponability of concentration" seems to be what the beeb is after.........

[teamsaint]

It's worth also remembering that a number of well-known musicians and writers on music, notably Hans Keller and Robert Simpson, warned at the time of the Third Programme's replacement by Radio 3 of the dangers of a radio station simply churning out hour upon hour of classical music, arguing that this posed the risk that such music would merely become an aural background leading to (in Keller's words) "an infinite postponability of concentration". Yet some here have called for precisely such a station, playing almost non-stop classical music, and in their disappointment have apparently sought out other stations on the internet closer to their ideal.

definitely a case of " be careful what you wish for".

Internet stations can supply a non -stop supply of almost any (sub) genre of music, but I would suggest that they don't always give us what we really need,including things like context, contrast, expertise, commentary, quizzes with prizes, and other material that adds to the experience of the music.

Those stations don't seem to be pulling in vast numbers of listeners, though some do well, and many do what they do very well, ( Contemporary classical 365 and UK Folk Radio for instance).
America of course did all this decades ago with its endless niche radio stations, which trap the listener in , for instance, a country music or soft rock ghetto.

[french frank]

It's worth also remembering that a number of well-known musicians and writers on music, notably Hans Keller and Robert Simpson, warned at the time of the Third Programme's replacement by Radio 3 of the dangers of a radio station simply churning out hour upon hour of classical music, arguing that this posed the risk that such music would merely become an aural background leading to (in Keller's words) "an infinite postponability of concentration". Yet some here have called for precisely such a station, playing almost non-stop classical music, and in their disappointment have apparently sought out other stations on the internet closer to their ideal.

And looking at the first day of Radio 3, I'd say the people who really have cause to complain are those who find so MUCH of the schedule filled with music (of what ever sort) compared with serious speech programming, the like of which is (seldom if) (n)ever broadcast on Radio 4.

To want 'hour upon hour of classical music' is no different from wanting hour upon hour of pop music - just different personal tastes.

[Radio64]

Cl*mmy for Breakfast on a Sunday! They're really spoiling us!

[french frank]

Shame International Women's Day is only once a year! They seem to be short of female presenters willing to trek up to Salford over the weekends. Sarah Walker, Suzy Klein and Sara Mohr-Pietsch all seem to be anchored down in London.