The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[doversoul1]

Do you mean to say the man really does know something about music? Hides it well, doesn't he.

Yes, I do meant to say that he really does know something about recorded music. No he doesn’t hide it at all well. He sounds terrible when acting a personality DJ.

[teamsaint]

Yes, I do meant to say that he really does know something about recorded music. No he doesn’t hide it at all well. He sounds terrible when acting a personality DJ.

I absolutely agree DS.
He is made to act in a way totally insuited to his skills , knowledge, and experience.

I wish I could hear more of Rob doing what he does well,, guiding us towards classic recordings worthy of our time and effort.

[mercia]

would you say that as long as a presenter is one that you happen to like it doesn't really matter what music he or she plays - it could be the exact same playlist as with one's unfavoured presenter, as long as, say, Martin was presenting instead of Clemency, that would make the identical music acceptable.

........ asked because Martin has just played that MacCunn Land of Fountain & Mud piece

[french frank]

would you say that as long as a presenter is one that you happen to like it doesn't really matter what music he or she plays - it could be the exact same playlist as with one's unfavoured presenter, as long as, say, Martin was presenting instead of Clemency, that would make the identical music acceptable.

........ asked because Martin has just played that MacCunn Land of Fountain & Mud piece

I would say that there are two separate issues. The first is the way the presenter introduces the music, esp. content, but also manner; the second is the choice of music, whether it is frequently played, whether it's a single movement &c.

One presenter might make a poor playlist more tolerable - but it would still be a poor playlist. A poor presenter is perhaps more likely to have listeners switching off before it gets to the music.

[HARRIET HAVARD]

What announcement is that FF? They don't intend to rename R3 R3 Lite do they. Would be more than appropriate.

Or why not go the whole hog and just rename the station "The Light Programme". Would now seem appropriate.

[french frank]

Or why not go the whole hog and just rename the station "The Light Programme". Would now seem appropriate.

Yes, especially the evening concerts, lunchtime recitals, CotW and CD Review, Jon3 &c &c - this was the typical fare on The Light Programme (along with Up the Pole, Take It From Here - ah, yes, I remember them well).

It doesn't help to exaggerate, in my personal opinion.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

They could rename Saturday Classics: Saturday Club.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

They could rename Saturday Classics: Saturday Club.

[clive heath]

...which might cause Brian Matthew, hosting a non-tweet, almost non-trail 2 hour "Sounds of the Sixties" on Radio 2 earlier in the day, some consternation !

[Penn Igor]

Yes, especially the evening concerts, lunchtime recitals, CotW and CD Review, Jon3 &c &c - this was the typical fare on The Light Programme (along with Up the Pole, Take It From Here - ah, yes, I remember them well).

It doesn't help to exaggerate, in my personal opinion.

What I presume you are saying- not very clearly- is that Harriet is exaggerating.

Yes, of course up to a point she is. But only up to a point. Surely no one would argue that R3 has not "dumbed down" considerably over the past few years, would they? A process that continues with no bottom to the pit in sight.

Yes, some of the evening concerts are still memorable- although many are not. As with so much in the R3 schedules (especially Breakfast and Essential Classics) one has to kiss an awful lot of frogs to find a Prince. If the rot had only set in with these two shows, reluctantly, I would guess most of us could live with it. Unfortunately the rot seems to increasingly be spreading throughout the station.

More and more the content of the station falls into the catagories of light music, easy listening, film music etc- what someone recently described to me as the John Wilsonisation of the station- none of which, in my opinion, has any place on R3. After all, can you imagine the outcry if any of this stuff was put out on R1. It just wouldn't happen. But, as Harriet has hinted, there is a perfectly good home for this- and jazz for that matter....R2 (The Light Programme).

You mentioned Composer of the Week, presumably in the context of a programme that "get's it right". Yes, again up to a point. But even that show can't resist going off the rails every now and again. A few weeks ago we had "The Big Bands" as CoftheW. What was that all about? We have even had John Williams featured!

Yes, all in all I think Harriet has made a good point. There is obviously a market for easy listening, with it's car salesman/woman presentational style. But do we really want, or need, to have that on R3?

[french frank]

Penn Igor, most of the points you make would seem uncontroversial - but note the title of the thread (and the Essential Classics thread): people predominantly think very little of Breakfast and Essential Classics. If they were replaced by other programmes, I suspect a lot (not all - but a lot) of the irritation would be dispersed. But, too rigid an attitude of "let's sweep away all the rest of the dross" would seem extreme and unjustified. You only need to read the jazz board to see that Radio 3's jazz listeners are serious and musically informed. Jazz has been a regular feature of Radio 3 since 1964: one would think by now people would have accepted it as a 'respectable' art form that deserves its coverage on the station. It is not 'easy listening' in the way that Radio 2's jazz provision is.

People have a tendency to take the view: "I can't stand it - what's it doing on Radio 3?" When taken too far, without a rational basis, it merely becomes selfish intolerance.

I doubt many who know me - or FoR3 - would consider me/us complacent about 'easy listening' and the often patronising tone on Radio 3. But we have always tried to be rational in our arguments. Rants may allow one to let off steam, but in the end they usually reveal more about the ranter than anything we don't already know about the current state of Radio 3. They don't change anything.

Radio 3 will never be perfect for everyone. Let's get the essentials right, not present a shopping list of every detail of 'what is wrong' with the station and demand that it should change. Now!!!

[teamsaint]

is there a name for the apparent phenomena , in which when thinking of the past we tend to first recall the good things, but when thinking of the present we tend to focus initially on the bad?

I can suggest some names, if there isn't one.......

[vinteuil]

is there a name for the apparent phenomena , in which when thinking of the past we tend to first recall the good things, but when thinking of the present we tend to focus initially on the bad?

I can suggest some names, if there isn't one.......

... is this actually true? When I think of the present I bless the advantages of anaesthetic dentistry, central heating, ready access to an enormous amount of CDs, ability to acquire obscure tomes through abe.books etc - when I think of the past (in my own lifetime) I think of the joys of easy free parking in Bath and London, empty Mediterranean beaches, the seriousness of the Third Programme - I don't immediately focus on the downsides of the present - or of the past...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Penn Igor i wish you to know that the members who take an interest are at one with FrenchFrank in her characterisation of Jazz on R3

i might say that i find opera insufferably trivial melodrama and musically light weight, and it should be broadcast on a digital only channel and not R3; but i won't.

[Penn Igor]

Penn Igor i wish you to know that the members who take an interest are at one with FrenchFrank in her characterisation of Jazz on R3

i might say that i find opera insufferably trivial melodrama and musically light weight, and it should be broadcast on a digital only channel and not R3; but i won't.

Difficult to see how you can make such a sweeping statement about a whole musical genre- Opera. But still.

But to get to your point about Jazz. I too am a passionate jazz fan- as well as a "classical" music fan, and would be the first to admit that it get's a raw deal when it comes to broadcast time. I, therefore, in no way begrudge what air time it is given on R3, in programmes dedicated to jazz. After all where else given the current climate within the BBC, would it go? But that's not the point. R3 is a "classical" music station. As far as I am aware that is, and always has been, its remit. But increasingly in the BEEB's race to the bottom, the content and presentation is being dumbed down. As I say, I too enjoy jazz, but even I would get more than a little concerned if it were to enter the content of programmes such as Breakfast and Essential Classics. But, unfortunately this is effectively what has happened. Not jazz, but the constant interjection of film music/musak, easy listening, tunes from the shows, and what can only be described as background music. Add to this a banal patronising presentational style, gimmicks such as the quiz, boring guests and listener phone-ins.....

I wonder how radio1 listeners would feel if their diet of "pop" music was adulterated- as I am sure they would see it- with Schonberg, Bartok etc. etc. Well they would switch off in their droves, wouldn't they! That, I am sure, is what has happened to R3. I don't know what the listener numbers are for R3 now. For all I know they may have gone up. But, I can't believe the change in presentational style and content throughout the station has done anything to retain many used to the quality performances and educated presentation for which the station was renown. I for one feel almost a sense of bereavement. As though I have seen an old and trusted friend slowly exterminated. Am I angry? You bet. But more than that. I'm frustrated that in the face of the rise of the philistines, there seems to be little we can do.