The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[antongould]

But what of the recent Rob Cowan morning that was so CFM it had messages of protest "ringing" through these boards - not a "very big say" from him surely?

[kernelbogey]

Wandering around the house this morning doing various things with Breakfast on in the background, I heard the joyful last movement of Dvorak's American Quartet. It set me thinking about our objection to broadcasting single movements from multi-movement works. Is this just because it's 'right' to hear the whole work? And what does that mean? When listening to such, do we ever think about it being an introduction of the work to some other listeners, or is our listening wholly 'selfish'? Do we therefore switch off if we happen to switch on during a concert and find ourself in the middle of a work? I'd be interested to hear others' views.

[french frank]

Do we therefore switch off if we happen to switch on during a concert and find ourself in the middle of a work?

No, but we might find it very annoying which is why I take it some of us try to switch on for the beginning of the concert. I don't think it's right to introduce the word 'selfish': there are two points of view, two styles of listener. Neither is more 'selfish' than the other.

My question would be a different one: if people don't mind switching on in the middle of a piece in the morning, do they mind switching off before a piece ends? Or do they time all their early morning jobs to fit in with the music?

[kernelbogey]

... I don't think it's right to introduce the word 'selfish': there are two points of view, two styles of listener. Neither is more 'selfish' than the other...

You misunderstand my (perhaps not clearly made) point: when feeling irritated at the broadcast of a single movement from a multi-movement work, one might think of those listeners to whom this is an introduction to that work or composer. That is, to think un-selfishly of others rather than just one's own preferences.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I don't know how many more times I have to repeat it, but it is NOT, I repeat again NOT, the fact that breakfast plays single movements from pieces that many of us find annoying it is the fact that it is the same works by the same composers that come up again and again and again. Could we possibly have a movement from another Dvorak Quartet on Breakfast or a movement from another chamber work apart from the Bagatelles on Breakfast?

[kernelbogey]

Well I find single movements annoying, so perhaps I'm just talking to myself. But I agree with your well-made and oft-repeated point, Suffolkcoastal!

[Norfolk Born]

Could we possibly have a movement from another Dvorak Quartet on Breakfast or a movement from another chamber work apart from the Bagatelles on Breakfast?

No. Auntie knows best. Just be quiet and eat your cornflakes. If you're VERY good, as a special treat, we may play you the famous bit from the 'Hovis' symphony.

[Frances_iom]

A similar problem can arise in other unrelated areas - eg http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376876,00.asp argues that 'geek' culture can never be asimilated by 'pop' culture - now substitute 'old school R3 listeners' for geeks and the complaint is the same - those who have in depth knowledge and interest are always going to be dissatisfied by 'pop' culture with its inherent shallower (tho possibly broader) nature

[Cellini]

Personally I can't stand music at breakfast time, all I want is silence and the sound of burnt toast. A couple of grunts is about all I can manage until about 10.00am

[Eudaimonia]

I'd strongly prefer not to hear individual movements either-- but in the context of the programme and its intended audience, I think it makes sense. If people are driving and doing other things instead of "listening seriously," why shouldn't they hear a wide variety of pieces in a short period of time?

Remember what it was like before you were familiar with everything? Perhaps you would have appreciated being exposed to works that encourage you to do your "serious listening" later. I can think of dozens of times I accidentally cut in on a piece and eagerly waited for the presenter to announce the name so I could write it down and pop off to the music library later. Come to think of it, almost everything I heard first on the radio that really "grabbed me" was followed up by a trip to the library or buying the CD. Isn't that how you do it too?

I'm guessing all the repeats probably have something to do with partnering with the music industry to promote current releases and the classical charts. Put another way, have they overplayed any recordings that are out of print? I'll bet not.

And here's one for the experienced listeners: when R3 first started broadcasting in the morning, what was the programming like the first time they filled the Breakfast slot? Any perspective on how mornings were handled in the 70s, 80s and early 90s would be welcome too; I'd be quite curious to know. Thanks!

[Andrew Slater]

And here's one for the experienced listeners: when R3 first started broadcasting in the morning, what was the programming like the first time they filled the Breakfast slot? Any perspective on how mornings were handled in the 70s, 80s and early 90s would be welcome too; I'd be quite curious to know. Thanks!

I've uploaded a scan of a random day's programming from 26th June 1978. (Notice the interesting-looking individual programmes and lack of short pieces during the 7 - 9am period.) (Please ignore the 'file not found' message!)

[french frank]

One thing sticks out, and that's that, with the little Schubert song at the end, there was a total of 20 separate programmes. For today there are 12 (only 11 if you don't count CotW twice).

Sorry, I was looking at 31 Jan: it's 14/15 today because it's Wednesday - also has Choral Evensong. Plus a Twenty Minutes as it's a live concert.

But I counted Perf on 3 twice because it has two halves. Make that 13/14.

[arancie33]

Any perspective on how mornings were handled in the 70s, 80s and early 90s would be welcome too; I'd be quite curious to know. Thanks!

I certainly cannot quote chapter and verse regarding the content of Morning on Three but I do recall enjoying the programme and the presentation. At no time did I have to bang the off switch in exasperation nor did I fill the breakfast room (aka the kitchen) with expletives and unprintable comments about the presenters as I do now. As an aside, when things started getting a bit "text me - email me with your suggestions" I wrote to the programme presenters pointing out that they were all knowledgeable, even expert, on matters musical and surely did not need suggestions and requests from Joe Soap & Co. I received a very civilised reply from Sandy Burnett to the effect that he sympathised entirely and had made representations himself. He left sometime after, leaving the programme to the present bunch of blatherers and prattlers. Hmmph!!

[tony yyy]

One thing sticks out, and that's that, with the little Schubert song at the end, ...

As far as I remember, 1978 was some sort of Schubert anniversary and they played a song or group of songs each day just before closedown. It was delightful.

[french frank]

I certainly cannot quote chapter and verse regarding the content of Morning on Three

Thursday 30 January (2003?)
Presented by Penny Gore

06:00
NEWS

06:04
Pachelbel
Partie in E minor
Musica Antiqua Koln
Reinhard Goebel (conductor)
ARCHIV 427 118-2
Tracks 16-19

06:12
Prokofiev
Contes de la vieille grand-mere
Yakov Kasman (piano)
CALIOPE CAL 9303
Tracks 24-27

06:22
Linley
Music for The Tempest
The Parley of Instruments Baroque Orchestra and Choir
Paul Nicholson (director)
HYPERION CDA 66767
Tracks 1-7

06:50
Chaminade
Concertino
Susan Milan (flute)
City of London Sinfonia
Richard Hickox (conductor)
CHANDOS CHAN 8840
Track 4

07:00
NEWS

07:04
Geminiani
Concerto grosso in B flat major, Op.3'5
Montreal Baroque Orchestra
Joel Thiffault (director)
ATMA ACD 22122
Tracks 15-18

07:13
Liszt
Valse caprice no.6
Leslie Howard (piano)
HYPERION CDA 66951
CD 2 Track 6

07:22
Schubert
Symphony in D major, D.615
Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Charles Mackerras (conductor)
HYPERION CDA 67000
Tracks 1-2

07:30
NEWS

07:35
Haydn
Cello concerto in D major
Steven Isserlis (cello)
The Chamber Orchestra of Europe
Roger Norrington (conductor)
RCA 09026 68578-2
Tracks 5-7

08:00
NEWS

08:04
Respighi
Ancient airs and dances - suite 1
Boston Symphony Orchestra
Seiji Ozawa (conductor)
DG 419 868-2
Tracks 1-4

08:20
Vivaldi
Sonata for oboe in C minor, RV.53
Paolo Grazzi (oboe)
Il Giardino Armonico Milano
TELDEC 9031 74727-2
Tracks 7-10

08:30
NEWS

08:31
Dvorak
In Nature's Realm
Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
Vladimir Ashkenazy (conductor)
ONDINE ODE 962-2
CD 2 Track 1

08:50
Saint-Saens
Introduction and rondo capriccioso
Zino Francescatti (violin)
New York Phiharmonic Orchestra
Leonard Bernstein (conductor)
SONY SMK 47608
Track 10