The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[Beef Oven]

I love elitism in music. It gives me a sense of belonging. Pure and simple.

I think that supports my point. Belonging to a small ethnocentric elite.

[Beef Oven]

Well, I'm white (I blame my parents) and now I'm middle class - but my background is working class, and for the first eighteen-and-a-half years of my life, I lived in the same council House that my parents lived (and died) in from 1957 - 2010, my father a charge hand in a factory that made valves for rich people's HiFi systems, my mother a shop assistant. In 1972, when I was twelve, I first listened to Radio 3 and (Patricia Hughes aside) felt instantly drawn to its respectful and ever-so-slightly bonkers world (respectful of the audience, respectful of the Music it played). R3 (in the days which are now often criticized as being "too elitist" for people from my backgroud) gave me some of the first glimmers of what my life might possibly be like. I don't think I'd've been "hooked" at twelve by the sub-"Diddy" David Hamilton-type of broadcasting that occurs today in Breakfast and most of Essential Classics. Nor, judging by RAJAR figures, is there much success in attracting new and/or different audiences.

I wouldn't be surprised if the future audiences for Musics beyond the commercial mainstreams arise from the Internet: YouTube, Spotify, Music Blogs et al. I have no idea what will happen to the BBC orchestras.

I'm pink and I come from Kingsmead Estate, so what?

Doesn't mean that we are not perpetuating a narrow, white, middle-class elite.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Doesn't mean that we are not perpetuating a narrow, white, middle-class elite.

Depends what you mean by "narrow", "middle class" and (especially) "elite": I'm especially interested in which elite I'm supposed to represent - does allow me to move to the front of a 'bus queue?

[DracoM]

Who on EARTH was running 'Breakfast' this [Sat 13th July] a.m.?

[Anna]

Who on EARTH was running 'Breakfast' this [Sat 13th July] a.m.?

It was Simon Hoban. He usually presents the drive-time programme on Radio Merseyside. I only listened from 7 to 8am when I went out but it sounded very much like a local radio programme (to be honest I've given up on Breakfast with the endless tweets and name checks, it's just there as background waffle if I don't want to have R4's argumentative Today on)

[french frank]

I'm especially interested in which elite I'm supposed to represent - does allow me to move to the front of a 'bus queue?

Of course, not - it's just as likely to put you at the end of the queue.

Narrow? Radio 1 has 18% AB, R3 has 14% DE. Radio 1 is targeted on the 15-29 year olds, Radio 3 has no target age but is mainly older people.

Radio1's audience may be somewhat more 'representative' in being closer to the national average. It has a rather larger 'ethnic minory' mix than average because the popular music played is, of itself, more likely to have black performers than average so could, along with Radio 1 Xtra, be said to 'over cater' for those minorities. I don't complain about that, but in age and social grade, Radio 1 is also 'narrow'. At what point will 'the young' be considered an 'exclusive' elite?

[Frances_iom]

It was Simon Hoban. He usually presents the drive-time programme on Radio Merseyside...

seems to be a regular - maybe the usual London based crew are busy with proms - but why complain he is doing exactly what is required to move R3 into the usual non-listener non-elite group who are happy with local radio station dj's mindless witterings - wait til 9am for some reasonably competent programming (tho even that has a compulsory advert midway )

[Beef Oven]

Depends what you mean by "narrow", "middle class" and (especially) "elite": I'm especially interested in which elite I'm supposed to represent - does allow me to move to the front of a 'bus queue?

Do people still queue where you live?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Do people still queue where you live?

Yes!


Beggar all buses, though.

[Old Grumpy]

I can appreciate that the current format of Weekday Breakfast may not be to everyone's taste (especially to the majority of members of this forum!). It is however certainly the best radio programme available to those (like me) commute to work on a daily basis in a car with a normal (i.e. FM only) radio. I agree, the number of namechecks is becoming slightly irritating, though - but, as has been previously pointed out, at least we don't get the hernia adverts (yet!).

I rarely listen to weekend Breakfast, so cannot comment thereon.

OG

[french frank]

I can appreciate that the current format of Weekday Breakfast may not be to everyone's taste (especially to the majority of members of this forum!). It is however certainly the best radio programme available to those (like me) commute to work on a daily basis in a car with a normal (i.e. FM only) radio. I agree, the number of namechecks is becoming slightly irritating, though - but, as has been previously pointed out, at least we don't get the hernia adverts (yet!).

But only 33% of the Radio 3 audience is in full-time employment, so the majority of listeners are not commuting to work daily. Whereas for other radio stations (e.g. R1, R2 and R4), the peak weekday listening is around 7.30-8.15am, for Radio 3 it is at 9am - another reason for Radio 3 to do things differently.

I don't regard this as a matter of 'taste'. For example, all things being equal, most Radio 3 listeners would surely prefer to hear a whole work rather than a single movement? So tolerating single movements in the mornings isn't a matter of taste but of the pertaining circumstances.

[Old Grumpy]

But only 33% of the Radio 3 audience is in full-time employment, so the majority of listeners are not commuting to work daily. Whereas for other radio stations (e.g. R1, R2 and R4), the peak weekday listening is around 7.30-8.15am, for Radio 3 it is at 9am - another reason for Radio 3 to do things differently.

I don't regard this as a matter of 'taste'. For example, all things being equal, most Radio 3 listeners would surely prefer to hear a whole work rather than a single movement? So tolerating single movements in the mornings isn't a matter of taste but of the pertaining circumstances.

I take your point FF, but Breakfast is over by 9 am and most commuters are at work. Essential Classics is another matter (and another thread) entirely!

[french frank]

I take your point FF, but Breakfast is over by 9 am and most commuters are at work. Essential Classics is another matter (and another thread) entirely!

The breakfast show (on virtually every station) gets the highest audience because it has a captive audience. Whether people are going off to work or not, they are getting up, some (and apparently a lot of) Radio 3 listeners in quite a leisurely fashion. Effectively, those who do want something more 'serious', well presented and informative don't get it because 'breakfast listeners' (generic term) want something bright, trivial, untaxing, packed with news. Apart from anything else, it has always been Radio 3's role to be serious and informative and encourage people to listen carefully. All sorts of 'Breakfast Shows' are on offer: it's not clear why Radio 3 should embrace a similar style.

Were I Controller I would do the exact opposite to try to educate the next generation. Lure them away from Doctor Who, not give them more of it. Have small classical programmes on children's television, not more pop.

[Nick Armstrong]

It was Simon Hoban.

Just heard him for the first time... he is a bit of an early-morning nightmare, isn't he? That old 'if we get someone to talk in a sing-song way with a regional accent we won't put anyone off' BBC formula for accessibility that actually sounds as if he's trying to coax a ward of trauma victims to take their meds without everybody panicking... Dear oh dear...

[antongould]

Just heard him for the first time... he is a bit of an early-morning nightmare, isn't he? That old 'if we get someone to talk in a sing-song way with a regional accent we won't put anyone off' BBC formula for accessibility that actually sounds as if he's trying to coax a ward of trauma victims to take their meds without everybody panicking... Dear oh dear...

Have you been taking your meds? What are you doing up at 07.13?