The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[Bax-of-Delights]

That's just it! That's where we're heading!

What's wrong with modernising and sustaining Radio 3 for future generations?

Well, let's start by defining "modernising".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

SPM must be knowledgeable, she has a Cambridge 1st (hons) in music and a Masters in musicology

She is: she did an excellent Discovering Music on the "Brandenburg" Concertos a few years ago that was splendidly in ythe best traditions of Tovey, Bernstein or Hopkins: demonstrating the workings of the Music for a general audience without the least hint of "talking down" to them. Her work on Hear & Now is usually excellent, too, and she's a very good interviewer and chairwoman of public discussions. It's only between dawn and dusk that she assumes the irritating ditsy persona that so many of us despise.

[Beef Oven]

Well, let's start by defining "modernising".

Bringing it up to date.

[amateur51]

She is: she did an excellent Discovering Music on the "Brandenburg" Concertos a few years ago that was splendidly in ythe best traditions of Tovey, Bernstein or Hopkins: demonstrating the workings of the Music for a general audience without the least hint of "talking down" to them. Her work on Hear & Now is usually excellent, too, and she's a very good interviewer and chairwoman of public discussions. It's only between dawn and dusk that she assumes the irritating ditsy persona that so many of us despise.

Ferney I think you've just created a phrase epitomising the decline of Radio 3 - IDP or Eyedeepee

[Nick Armstrong]

It's only between dawn and dusk that she assumes the irritating ditsy persona that so many of us despise.

There's some excellent, trenchant writing on this Forum this morning!

[antongould]

Ferney I think you've just created a phrase epitomising the decline of Radio 3 - IDP or Eyedeepee

Is it ditsy or ditzy? The Grauniad today has ditzy ....not talking of the wonderful SMP of course....my daughters have always been ditzy.

[Richard Tarleton]

....not talking of the wonderful SMP of course....

I believe she is the only R3 presenter to pronounce Tárrega correctly (not counting Ms Bott and Ms Skeaping who would never have cause to use the word but would doubtless get it right if they had to ) so she has my vote.

BTW my campaign has moved to a new level. Interesting developments.

[Serial_Apologist]

I believe she is the only R3 presenter to pronounce Tárrega correctly (not counting Ms Bott and Ms Skeaping who would never have cause to use the word but would doubtless get it right if they had to ) so she has my vote.

BTW my campaign has moved to a new level. Interesting developments.

Tell us more when some kind of outcome comes about, RT. (We aren't allowed to say "result" these days - the word being too eschatological, maybe).

[french frank]

What's wrong with modernising and sustaining Radio 3 for future generations?

Sustaining Radio 3? That is precisely what many of us think it is not doing.

If the BBC Trust says that their evidence suggests that 'some audiences perceive Radio 3 to be little inaccessible and daunting at times', that is surely no bad thing? Radio 3 should be completely inaccessible and daunting to 'some people' in just the way that Radio 1 and BBC Three are. All services are not for all people.

As James Corden said of John Humphrys' criticisms of BBC Three:

"Him talking about BBC Three is like him reviewing CBeebies.

"This not a channel for him, it is not a channel that he should even ever watch. In fact, if he doesn't watch it, and he doesn't like it, it is doing everything it should."

So why are we not allowed to say if SOME people find Radio 3 a little inaccessible and daunting (at times), "It's not a station for them; if they find it daunting and inaccessible it's doing everthing it should?" I can hear the lynch mob galloping in already ...

Is dumbing down the same as modernising?

[Beef Oven]

So why are we not allowed to say if SOME people find Radio 3 a little inaccessible and daunting (at times), "It's not a station for them; if they find it daunting and inaccessible it's doing everthing it should?"

Because we will only manage to re-create an audience in our own image. A very narrow and un-diverse, white middle class audience. Elitism at its worse.

[french frank]

Because we will only manage to re-create an audience in our own image. A very narrow and un-diverse, white middle class audience. Elitism at its worse.

I'm not suggesting we should do that; merely that there seems one rule where one section of society is allowed to have their playground and tell the rest to keep out if they don't like it.

If classical music has become marginalised, how much is that due to a BBC which used to include concerts routinely on mainstream services (there were Proms concerts on the old Home Service)? And the amount of light orchestral music has been reduced on Radio 2. Now even BBC Two is only going to have 'highlights' of the Proms and the type of concert that would have been on Two will now be broadcast on Four. It means that classical music is not something people will encounter by accident, just by sticking to their usual TV channel or radio station: they have venture over to the special ghetto of Radio 3 where all those 'elitists' hang out.

[Bax-of-Delights]

I was half-way through replying to Beef when I pressed the wrong button and lost the lot. What FF says plus

A) I'm white
B) I'm middle-class (but I'll post a piccie of my grandfather's Birmingham back-to-back where he died in abject working-class poverty if that helps)
and
C) I love elitism in music. It gives me a sense of belonging. Pure and simple.

[Serial_Apologist]

Because we will only manage to re-create an audience in our own image. A very narrow and un-diverse, white middle class audience. Elitism at its worse.

The audience may be narrow, but what a shame! The field of interest is as broad as any one may care to consider.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Because we will only manage to re-create an audience in our own image. A very narrow and un-diverse, white middle class audience. Elitism at its worse.

Well, I'm white (I blame my parents) and now I'm middle class - but my background is working class, and for the first eighteen-and-a-half years of my life, I lived in the same council House that my parents lived (and died) in from 1957 - 2010, my father a charge hand in a factory that made valves for rich people's HiFi systems, my mother a shop assistant. In 1972, when I was twelve, I first listened to Radio 3 and (Patricia Hughes aside) felt instantly drawn to its respectful and ever-so-slightly bonkers world (respectful of the audience, respectful of the Music it played). R3 (in the days which are now often criticized as being "too elitist" for people from my backgroud) gave me some of the first glimmers of what my life might possibly be like. I don't think I'd've been "hooked" at twelve by the sub-"Diddy" David Hamilton-type of broadcasting that occurs today in Breakfast and most of Essential Classics. Nor, judging by RAJAR figures, is there much success in attracting new and/or different audiences.

I wouldn't be surprised if the future audiences for Musics beyond the commercial mainstreams arise from the Internet: YouTube, Spotify, Music Blogs et al. I have no idea what will happen to the BBC orchestras.

[hmvman]

I wouldn't be surprised if the future audiences for Musics beyond the commercial mainstreams arise from the Internet: YouTube, Spotify, Music Blogs et al. I have no idea what will happen to the BBC orchestras.

The Google Symphony Orchestra? The Yahoo! Philharmonic? The Spotify Sinfonia?.....