The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

Is he "toast" because he spoke with his mouth full of said breakfast victual, or in the sense of being finished in his choice of career?

Because his photo was replaced after a couple of days by an electric toaster with two slices of toast

And lo! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rr6l7

[Nick Armstrong]

in the teeth

As in "kick"...

I hate the new 'accessibility SS' who beat up anyone who disapproves of the new régime

[Bax-of-Delights]

I was particularly taken by this phrase from that Sony comment on R3 Breakfast:

"in the teeth of opposition from some traditionalists."

From where, do you suppose, this phrase emanated? Would the Sony judges be that au fait with the opposition to and comment on the style and substance of Breakfast or can we surmise that this is a line that has been feed ever so discreetly to them from R3 itself thus allowing both praise for the "show" and a poke in the eye for the "traditionalists"?

[Sir Velo]

It would be interesting to know which of the Sony judges ever listens to classical music, or any other Radio 3 programmes, so as to be in a position to judge the quality of Breakfast. The fact that they refer to "in the teeth of opposition from some traditionalists" is a tacit admission that the programme is controversial.

I wonder if the programme has gone so far from the BBC Trust's original stipulation that Radio 3 should continue to provide quality classical music broadcasting that a challenge could be mounted on the basis that the station is in breach of its remit? Certainly, the last few weekends have plumbed the depths.

[french frank]

It would be interesting to know which of the Sony judges ever listens to classical music, or any other Radio 3 programmes, so as to be in a position to judge the quality of Breakfast.

I've been quickly through the list of all the judges. I think there is only a very small group judging each category. And Radio 3 was entered specifically in the Breakfast Show category - nothing to do with classical music, though given the appearance of R3 in the nominees, perhaps (?) one judge would be chosen with some knowledge.

I found 8 who might qualify - 7 connected with Classic FM (that's not to suggest bias, merely background). The eighth once won a Sony Gold for classical music programme (can that be right? was there ever such a category?) while working for Radio Piccadilly.

The only one I would consider as having any reasonable knowledge of classical music is Darren Henley, MD of CFM. He may or may not have been on the panel. Others connected with CFM were not necessarily connected with the music side.

But you can see very plainly the world which Radio 3 is trying to enter - and it has nothing to do with knowledge or love of classical music.

I wonder if the programme has gone so far from the BBC Trust's original stipulation that Radio 3 should continue to provide quality classical music broadcasting that a challenge could be mounted on the basis that the station is in breach of its remit? Certainly, the last few weekends have plumbed the depths.

Sadly, the Trust personnel charged with reviewing Radio 3 were as vague as anyone - they could have listened and then written such as the judges' Breakfast report, they are so out of touch. They rely on the information they get from Radio 3.

We (I mean FoR3 ) have already sent them a highly detailed report on the ways in which we consider their review was flawed (they also, for one part, asked people to listen to programmes and pronounce on the quality of the programmes and expertise of presenters - even though 'some' people did not listen to Radio 3 and weren't necessarily interested in classical music. They refused to tell us how many of their panel did listen to Radio 3 and which programmes they were asked to listen to. But the system sounds just like the Sony judging methodology). They then merely indicated that they disagreed, without addressing any of the points.

[Wallace]

Well, here it is:

What the Judges Said

"This is a joy to listen to. Radio 3 has made considerable changes to its breakfast show turning it into an accessible, warm, and stimulating start the day, in the teeth of opposition from some traditionalists.

No longer is classical music handed out. Now listeners are asked for their suggestions, introduce them, and talk about discoveries and musical passions. Presenters Petroc Trewlawny and Sara Mohr-Pietsch are well matched friendly experts, always encouraging."

Oh dear. This is depressing. It is enough to make one want to give up and go home. I admire your stamina FF, keeping the flag flying for quality in face of this. Your quote above could be an extract from the Radio 3 manifesto. Wait! Perhaps it is an extract from the Radio 3 manifesto.

I wonder, FF, whether you feel that the sterling campaigning which you and the FoR3 have done in recent years has made any difference at all to the path taken by Radio 3 and by the BBC Trust. I worry that it hasn't. I am confident that the glory days of the station are long gone and that it is now in managed decline. I am pleased however that I was able to listen to Radio 3 when it was a station of which we could be proud, when it embraced the spirit of public service broadcasting. We now listen in different ways, for example via the iplayer. The time when the nation watched and listened together are over. It is a shame I feel, but it is a fact. I think those who moan about the dire fare which is served up on the radio for breakfast are indeed traditionalists, because they still expect to listen to the radio in the traditional way - as it is broadcast. There are much better programmes on the iplayer to listen to in the morning and not many (or any) which are worse, why would anyone listen to Breakfast - unless it is what they have always (and traditionally) done.

My worry is that the remaining quality programmes which are available on the iplayer will also fall victim to the dumbing down in the name of increased accessibility. But maybe we will start to see the BBC archive becoming available online and listening habits will change again. We can but hope.

[Black Swan]

Well, S M-P has obviously taken this to heart as she has just played a grotesquely excruciating "Folk Mass" gobbet suggested by a listener. Expect new lows in the months to come...

I couldn't agree more. Every day I think it can't sink any lower and then someone calls in some unknown piece and we get to hear the presenter gush about it and ask for more calls and tweets.

[Thropplenoggin]

Oh dear. This is depressing. It is enough to make one want to give up and go home. I admire your stamina FF, keeping the flag flying for quality in face of this. Your quote above could be an extract from the Radio 3 manifesto. Wait! Perhaps it is an extract from the Radio 3 manifesto.

I wonder, FF, whether you feel that the sterling campaigning which you and the FoR3 have done in recent years has made any difference at all to the path taken by Radio 3 and by the BBC Trust. I worry that it hasn't. I am confident that the glory days of the station are long gone and that it is now in managed decline. I am pleased however that I was able to listen to Radio 3 when it was a station of which we could be proud, when it embraced the spirit of public service broadcasting. We now listen in different ways, for example via the iplayer. The time when the nation watched and listened together are over. It is a shame I feel, but it is a fact. I think those who moan about the dire fare which is served up on the radio for breakfast are indeed traditionalists, because they still expect to listen to the radio in the traditional way - as it is broadcast. There are much better programmes on the iplayer to listen to in the morning and not many (or any) which are worse, why would anyone listen to Breakfast - unless it is what they have always (and traditionally) done.

My worry is that the remaining quality programmes which are available on the iplayer will also fall victim to the dumbing down in the name of increased accessibility. But maybe we will start to see the BBC archive becoming available online and listening habits will change again. We can but hope.

A brilliant post.

As a relatively new listener, I sought out R3 to find something the other stations don't offer, but the great god Homogenisation insists all stations must sound alike, be "inclusive" and, (shudder), interactive. What's wrong with having someone knowledgeable dish out great music and Anna's much-loved facts (Beethoven contracting genital warts prior to penning the Emperor Concerto (actually, not with my Dorset Cereals granola, thank you very much!)) I want a monologue; I want works in their entirety, or diverse short works... And, it seems from these boards, so do other regular listeners... But we are not the ones being wooed.

[BBMmk2]

Well, for me, i have rather enjoyed the current 'musical map', now sadly coming to an end soon. I hope other boarder have listened and thought anew about the wealth of good music that is available, especially(although not played at the moment), from the last twenty years.

[cloughie]

But maybe we will start to see the BBC archive becoming available online and listening habits will change again. We can but hope.

I think you'll wait a long time - my view is that they sold off a lot of it and wiped a lot of it - and the more recent stuff is regurgitated on Ao3.

[EdgeleyRob]

Well, for me, i have rather enjoyed the current 'musical map', now sadly coming to an end soon. I hope other boarder have listened and thought anew about the wealth of good music that is available, especially(although not played at the moment), from the last twenty years.

I haven't,don't need to BBM,just read this forum.

[Sir Velo]

A brilliant post.

As a relatively new listener, I sought out R3 to find something the other stations don't offer, but the great god Homogenisation insists all stations must sound alike, be "inclusive" and, (shudder), interactive.

Funny: I always feel excluded by attempts at "inclusivity".

[Bax-of-Delights]

Well, for me, i have rather enjoyed the current 'musical map', now sadly coming to an end soon. I hope other boarder have listened and thought anew about the wealth of good music that is available, especially(although not played at the moment), from the last twenty years.

BBM - while I am delighted for you that Breakfast has deigned to play a little brass band music each day it remains that it has only been included as part of an "inclusivity" gimmick - the musical map - which was possibly dreamt up in group hug session one wet Monday morning, the fact remains that once this particular section of the map is complete it will move on and brass band pieces will once again be demoted to the occasional wheeling out of the Padstow Lifeboat disc with its "uproarious" mimicking of the foghorn. (I used to like this piece but it has been so overplayed on R3 that I now dread it surfacing every few days).

This morning's offerings have been the usual amalgam of very, very well-known pieces; Espana, Trout, Romeo & Juliet (the Lord Sugar variation) etc etc. plus reminders every 15 minutes that if I should be unfortunate enough to need A&E attention I shall probably be left to rot on a stretcher.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Is he "toast" because he spoke with his mouth full of said breakfast victual, or in the sense of being finished in his choice of career?

Have we ever run suggestions for Breakfast of true breakfast-food music?

Along the lines of the Carmen Toreador's Song in English, as per Peter Dawson...

"Sirs, your toast". (My coat's already on, thank you)

[mercia]

The [Black] Coffee Cantata by a cereal composer, marked allegro con brioche
The Frosties Scene from Purcell's King Arthur
Beethoven's Baguettelles op.33
Panqueca by Villa-Lobos

what a silly idea