The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[LMcD]

Yes I reckon 50 per cent of Breakfast was single movements from multi movement works mainly written between 1700 and 1900 - a tiny proportion of global music history . I don’t see why playing the whole of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik would get people to switch off more than what we had : a single movt of that, a single movt of the Vivaldi, a single movt of the Rodrigo Guitar Concerto with Over The Rainbow, some Resphighi , Fingals Cave etc
. It’s all relatively undemanding fare. Is the short piece policy to reduce cost through more speech ? Is it to give the presenter a change to reveal their personality ? Is it to give the (overworked ) producer even more work to do? Is it the result of market research ; or the product of in-house myth and superstition?

i think we should be told…partly because we’ve exhausted this topic haven’t we ?

Perhaps they believe that the majority of listeners have a short ...I see that no. 45 have got some new curtains - oh, must remember to put the dustbin out....
Perhaps the Mozart excerpt should have been introduced as 'Eine noch kleinere Nachtmusik'..

[french frank]

Neither.

And yet .. you tune in, which is all they want you to do. You may switch off in exasperation, but for all they know that's when you have to leave for work.

[french frank]

Having to leave off listening to a complete work due to the demands of beginning a working day isn't of itself better than only having part of it in the first place

Coming back to this, I would disagree completely. If they only play part of the work, no one can hear the whole work, regardless of whether they have to leave for work or anything else. The distinctive difference between Radio 3 and CFM was that R3 did play whole, full-length works. And did not play single movements. There were just as many people listening then as now - at least.

Edit: I'm not sure that I do disagree with you on rereading. I think perhaps you're saying the same thing.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Perhaps they believe that the majority of listeners have a short ...I see that no. 45 have got some new curtains - oh, must remember to put the dustbin out....
Perhaps the Mozart excerpt should have been introduced as 'Eine noch kleinere Nachtmusik'..

Said it on the forum before but if attention spans are falling why is one the fastest growing parts of the audio market multiple episodes of hour long speech podcasts which quite a few people binge listen? And why are the streamers full of complex multi plot dramas that often need rewinding to understand e,g, Big little lies , Ludwig , Line Of Duty, the Staircase , etc etc

[oddoneout]

Quite some time ago I came to the conclusion that much as there may be a desire, (and indeed an argument when considering what R3 should be for) to go back to a time when Breakfast didn't exist, trying to put that particular genie back in the pot is a wasted effort. I am far more concerned that the format spread further into the schedules when the follow-on Essential Classics came on the scene, and has now encroached even further to affect the excellent afternoon slot that used to be Afternoon Concert, such that virtually all the daytime output is of that style, although the afternoon slot does have more complete or longer works in it, but in variable quantities.
Yes, there are many works that are short enough to play in the current few minute slots, and it would be nice to hear them, but the Essential Classic slot is the one that is really missing the mark for everyone on that front, since that would be an ideal platform for those shorter but complete works, and as I have said many times before, leading into - shock horror - somewhat longer complete works - heaven knows even with all the additional rubbish to accommodate in the time that should be possible.

[oddoneout]

And yet .. you tune in, which is all they want you to do. You may switch off in exasperation, but for all they know that's when you have to leave for work.

I know, awful isn't it? It so happens that it suits me at that time of day, since for various reasons(pain being one) I welcome the undemanding distraction and the chance of hearing something new to me or a bit of interesting information, which does still happen, despite the encroachment of the various forms of Beeb self promotion. It's not what I want for the rest of the day though, which is why I switch off now at 9-30 - preferably using the off switch... There are quite often items I would like to listen to in the afternoon, but I can't be doing with trying to guess when they might come on.
I apologise for adding a number to the wrong metric, but it is counter-balanced perhaps by not being a number any more for the rest of the day, (and most evenings) since I am now largely an exR3 listener.

[french frank]

to put that particular genie back in the pot is a wasted effort.

But why should it be more of a wasted effort than trying to improve Essential Classics or the Afternoon Concert?

The enigma is why they make their classical music programming so unappealing to so many listeners who are interested primarily in classical music.

[Cockney Sparrow]

And yet .. you tune in, which is all they want you to do. You may switch off in exasperation, but for all they know that's when you have to leave for work.

I've done my part.
Earlier this year (end of winter, IIRC) Mrs CS had a friendly conversation with a caller at the door, and then sub-contracted the resultant record keeping of a survey of radio listening. In 15 minute segments.
It showed I listened, morning and afternoon to YLE (Finland), radio France, WQXR and Radio 4. Also radio 3 for specific content - composer of the week, record review, private passions, EMS, CE, evening concert, lunchtime concert (if it was happening at the time) Opera on 3, the Essay and other, largely evening, R3 speech programmes of worth (i.e babble/trailer free). No Classic FM light (morning, mid afternoon) content, no Tom Service. No Jazz (no offence, just not for me). A few times "In Tune" - where the short span is, IMO justified - when driving and once or twice world/Roots music.

Really, for me the schedule changes have accelerated a trend - use BBC Sounds, "the radio" only sometimes - to listen to a certain number of programmes I value, for both Radio 3 and 4, and use streaming service playlists for works, and CDs when I am not mobile around the house / garden etc.

I was past the point of having the radio on for long periods and expecting informative, intelligent content in a sufficient proportion to outweigh the features I have found increasingly annoying -
Very loud, compressed (audio quality) trailers.
Added to the trivialisation of Radio 3, on Radio 4: content for hours on end laying out the woes and demands of segments of society, 10 part series stretching thin material far overlong and then repeated up to 3 or more times. "Re-imagining". And quite a bit more - I could go on, but I've run out of time, and in any case, I think that's enough for now...

[oddoneout]

But why should it be more of a wasted effort than trying to improve Essential Classics or the Afternoon Concert?

The enigma is why they make their classical music programming so unappealing to so many listeners who are interested primarily in classical music.

I think it ticks too many boxes now, and I suspect that there are quite a lot of otherwise typical/core/longstanding R3 listeners who tune in as well, so I feel it is better to concede that battle and concentrate on the rest of the daytime schedule(up to COTW) which is now far more of a wasted opportunity and willful avoidance of what R3 should be doing in my opinion. But you and I are never going to agree on this are we?

[french frank]

Really, for me the schedule changes have accelerated a trend - use BBC Sounds,

I can hear the new R3 trails now in preparation: 'Live Radio 3 is Dead'.

[french frank]

But you and I are never going to agree on this are we?

No . I'm one of those who simply never took to Breakfast** from the very beginning. Some awful features have gone, others have arrived. The presenter, if not exactly 'all', is certainly far too much for me. And the critical/intellectual/informed quality is just not there.

** I did however listen to it many, many times for research purposes

[oddoneout]

I can hear the new R3 trails now in preparation: 'Live Radio 3 is Dead'.

There are times now when I think that is their aim. It seems as if it isn't considered of any importance to provide a consistent, coherent, quality offering because "everyone listens via....."(insert device of choice), the assumption then being that they can "curate their own listening experience". OK, I'm the outlier in not using those alternatives but even so I can't help thinking that without the discipline of a quality linear radio offering, including genuine live performances, then BBC will lose out to alternatives elsewhere(as recommended many times on the forum) which better cater for what many R3 listeners want - music without the rubbish.

[LMcD]

But you and I are never going to agree on this are we?

Never mind - I agree with you most of the time, and especially with your comments in post 11002
27 items on Breakfast today and 34 on Essential Classics!

[oddoneout]

Never mind - I agree with you most of the time, and especially with your comments in post 11002
27 items on Breakfast today and 34 on Essential Classics!

Thank you.
By way of "balance" to your figures(cough,cough)
Wigmore Hall on Classical Live 30 Sep: 21 items, and 7th October 20 items, in both cases a one hour slot...
It's not the number that's important of course.

[french frank]

Never mind - I agree with you most of the time, and especially with your comments in post 11002
27 items on Breakfast today and 34 on Essential Classics!

<Cough> Could I make the point here that quoting a post number is no use to those of us who use the Latest Activity view? In order to check 11002 i had to change to POSTS and scroll through several pages. 11002 seems to be one from you which reads "Hurrah!" I wondered whether quoting the figures 27 and 34 referred to my own references to the number of pieces played, since it makes exactly the same point as I've been making.