The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[smittims]

Yes, I think you've put it very well there, frankie. I suspect Sam is hurt because he thinks he's trying to save Radio 3 in the same way that Dr. Beeching thought he was trying to save British Railways, and getting precious little thanks for it.

[LMcD]

[QUOTE=french frank;n1320186but the problem is that Radio 3 is trying to serve two masters.[/QUOTE]

.... while riding two horses?

[AuntDaisy]

...
But to be clearer, I believe that BBC strategy has focused on:

Getting younger people to listen to Radio 3
Getting a broader, more diverse audience for Radio 3
Striving to avoid 'intimidating' (a BBC Trust verb) people who are less informed about classical music
Deliberately catering for perceived shorter attention spans (RW stated that in a Feedbak interview).
...

I think you're right.

There's also:

• Promoting "under-represented" composers / musicians. (Possibly based on ethnicity, gender, nationality, modernity...)

Some of the recent and up-coming COTWs might fall in to this category - I have to admit to a certain lack of enthusiasm to hear them.

[oddoneout]

, but the problem is that Radio 3 is trying to serve two masters.

And failing both it seems to me, and to a degree that I think isn't necessary. However this is where the lack of evidence becomes an issue; I am not convinced that the April Refresh initiatives because it smacks to me still of "we know best" and that's all that's necessary. But that could well be simply my jaundiced opinion, and in fact there is a raft of research, focus group activity etc of sufficient quality and in sufficient quantity to support the complete replacement of the previous schedules by the current versions, because it's what the listening audience wants. Perhaps we few are completely unrepresentative and most existing R3 listeners have been happy to transition to R3 Refreshed.

[LMcD]

I think you're right.

There's also:

• Promoting "under-represented" composers / musicians. (Possibly based on ethnicity, gender, nationality, modernity...)

Some of the recent and up-coming COTWs might fall in to this category - I have to admit to a certain lack of enthusiasm to hear them.

Isn't that what they call 'box-ticking'?

[french frank]

But that could well be simply my jaundiced opinion, and in fact there is a raft of research, focus group activity etc of sufficient quality and in sufficient quantity to support the complete replacement of the previous schedules by the current versions, because it's what the listening audience wants.

Same old, same old. 'What the listening audience wants? What listening audience? The majority of radio listeners and what they say they want? Cart and horse again.

If there is an acceptance that Radio 3 should be a 'cultural network' for music (classical, jazz, world) and the arts (drama, poetry, features and documentaries), why can't they present them in a way that satisfies the audience that wants to listen to that kind of programming rather than tailoring it to appeal to a broader audience which is only half - or less - interested?

One critic** talking about the 'dumbing down' of serious television programmes by targeting them on 'the broader audience' said that those interested in the subject matter were put off watching by the style; and those who the style was supposed to attract weren't interested in the subject matter. (He said it more succinctly).

** Profound apologies if I'm mistaken, but I'm fairly sure it was John Mullan.

Perhaps we few are completely unrepresentative and most existing R3 listeners have been happy to transition to R3 Refreshed.

Same old, same old. Who is the R3 listener supposed to 'represent'? We 'represent' ourselves - those who criticise R3's populist direction of travel. What is the BBC vision for a service focused on the arts and culture?

[french frank]

There's also:

*Promoting "under-represented" composers / musicians. (Possibly based on ethnicity, gender, nationality, modernity...)
Some of the recent and up-coming COTWs might fall in to this category - I have to admit to a certain lack of enthusiasm to hear them.

I have less difficulty with that. It may be that a higher proportion of such composers don't really merit a place but only by hearing them do we make up our minds. I don't begrudge the 25 minutes of Stockhausen's Stimmung that I managed to listen to before deciding to take the CD off. I don't challenge its musical worth and listening to a bit of it 'expanded my horizons' and if required to I could probably write an essay on why it was unappealing to me. Increasing knowledge is as valid as providing enjoyment

[Serial_Apologist]

I have less difficulty with that. It may be that a higher proportion of such composers don't really merit a place but only by hearing them do we make up our minds. I don't begrudge the 25 minutes of Stockhausen's Stimmung that I managed to listen to before deciding to take the CD off. I don't challenge its musical worth and listening to a bit of it 'expanded my horizons' and if required to I could probably write an essay on why it was unappealing to me. Increasing knowledge is as valid as providing enjoyment

One can only do so much with an augmented sixth chord, and some of what Stockhausen did with it is risibly cringeworthy. What's always astonished me is the respect and admiration in which this work is held among a number of noteworthy composers and qualified academics - no pun intended.

[kernelbogey]

Six thirty a.m., Broadcasting house, London, England:
So Hannah French back-announces the last item of TTN - Ave Maris Stella by Johann Stadlmayr (died c1648 since you ask)... and then we're into a minute of insane orchestral segues and Jules Holland (is it?) yelling about his programme before Hannah can say who she is, what programme she's presenting, introduce the newsreader and all that.

THIS IS AN INSANE, INSULTING APPROACH TO YOUR LISTENERS MR JACKSON.

PLEASE STOP DOING THIS!

Hey Everybody - they HAVE stopped this recent innovation of a trailer between TTN and Breakfast! (At least today. )


Edit: the Jools trailer appeared at 0645.

[AuntDaisy]

Hey Everybody - they HAVE stopped this recent innovation of a trailer between TTN and Breakfast! (At least today. )


Edit: the Jools trailer appeared at 0645.

I heard the end of the Grzegorz Gerwazy Gorczycki "Completorium", but it didn't click.
Hannah French read "our Monday morning weather forecast" with "all our ducks in a row" . Then on to a pleasant & unjarring John Field Nocturne.

[kernelbogey]

I heard the end of the Grzegorz Gerwazy Gorczycki "Completorium", but it didn't click.
Hannah French read "our Monday morning weather forecast" with "all our ducks in a row" . Then on to a pleasant & unjarring John Field Nocturne.

I think Hannah is a great presenter - excellent microphone technique and she brings huge knowledge of the rep, especially early music.

[antongould]

Hey Everybody - they HAVE stopped this recent innovation of a trailer between TTN and Breakfast! (At least today. )


Edit: the Jools trailer appeared at 0645.

very well done Kb ….. perhaps the wonderful Mr. Jackson paid attention….

[LMcD]

I think Hannah is a great presenter - excellent microphone technique and she brings huge knowledge of the rep, especially early music.

Agreed!

[AuntDaisy]

I think Hannah is a great presenter - excellent microphone technique and she brings huge knowledge of the rep, especially early music.

Thirded.
I was unsure when she first began (e.g. on EMS), but her presentation & knowledge work well now. (Although I'd still welcome Lucie Skeaping & Catherine Bott returning to EMS).

[kernelbogey]

very well done Kb ….. perhaps the wonderful Mr. Jackson paid attention….

Thank you. Very much also laurels to our esteemed founder for forwarding my red-tinged rant to SJ with more rational commentary.