The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[LMcD]

"He was imposing, inspirational, impatient, irritating, frighteningly secure in his tastes, ready to denounce anyone who disagreed with him, yet with a deep and attractive vulnerability, which endeared him even to those of us who regularly suffered the verbal lashes of his criticism." - Nicholas Kenyon, plus other quotes. He 'gave offence too readily' - and that was from a friend. A difficult man to work with.

Also Jilly Cooper: "I simply could not put down John Drummond's entertainingly poisonous memoirs, Tainted By Experience (Faber)." I read the book but found the man more off-putting than entertaining.

I remember John Drummond's being asked by an irate listener on some phone-in programme or other why there was an opera on every Saturday night. His answer, which I can quote in its entirety, was: 'It's called policy'.

[AuntDaisy]

I remember John Drummond's being asked by an irate listener on some phone-in programme or other why there was an opera on every Saturday night. His answer, which I can quote in its entirety, was: 'It's called policy'.

He did "Call the Controller" several times - I wonder if Sam J would be interested in a repeat?

BTW his answer to the first question in the 1990 "Call the Controller" included "I like criticism and welcome it, and we wouldn't be here doing this programme if I didn't..." Other times, other controllers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

"He was imposing, inspirational, impatient, irritating, frighteningly secure in his tastes, ready to denounce anyone who disagreed with him, yet with a deep and attractive vulnerability, which endeared him even to those of us who regularly suffered the verbal lashes of his criticism." - Nicholas Kenyon, plus other quotes. He 'gave offence too readily' - and that was from a friend. A difficult man to work with.

Also Jilly Cooper: "I simply could not put down John Drummond's entertainingly poisonous memoirs, Tainted By Experience (Faber)." I read the book but found the man more off-putting than entertaining.

There are others who speak warmly of him - including more junior people than Nick Kenyon. You have to remember that a lot of people who work at the Beeb are intensely irritating and would try the patience of a Saint . They are also completely unsackable and know it.

[french frank]

There are others who speak warmly of him - including more junior people than Nick Kenyon. You have to remember that a lot of people who work at the Beeb are intensely irritating and would try the patience of a Saint . They are also completely unsackable and know it.

Indeed - Nick Kenyon spoke warmly of him as a friend. And I appended my comment that he was responsible for some very good radio programming. Doesn't prevent him being arrogant, dictatorial and generally difficult.

[smittims]

Reading the comments on John Drummind reminded me of similar things said about Sir John Reith, so maybe JD was in the right job after all.

. When eventually it was felt that Reith had to be given a job in the war effort, Churchill said to him 'I don't know how we will get on ; I'm told you are a difficult man to work with' which I think must go down as one of the most unconsciously-ironic remarks of the 20th century.

[kernelbogey]

Emma Clarke is meeting my approval! No need for Pillar Box Red 24-point caps here!

And wasn't that a great LvB Triple Concerto (one movement only, but hey...)?

[AuntDaisy]

Emma Clarke is meeting my approval! No need for Pillar Box Red 24-point caps here!

And wasn't that a great LvB Triple Concerto (one movement only, but hey...)?

Yes, I heard part of it while getting breakfast ready.

[LMcD]

Yes, I heard part of it while getting breakfast ready.

You heard part of one movement - you sound like just the kind of listener we're looking for!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Reading the comments on John Drummind reminded me of similar things said about Sir John Reith, so maybe JD was in the right job after all.

. When eventually it was felt that Reith had to be given a job in the war effort, Churchill said to him 'I don't know how we will get on ; I'm told you are a difficult man to work with' which I think must go down as one of the most unconsciously-ironic remarks of the 20th century.

Again like Drummond the reality is more complex than the myth.
Churchill was very far from being some sort of irascible semi-dictator. He was a master politician - perhaps the greatest in our history - in the key skill at winning people round . Not just through oratory though there was plenty of that but through shrewd diplomacy and persuasion , One key text ‘Five Days in London May 1940’ by the Yale historian John Lukacs. The real story of how he resisted demands to come to terms with Hitler - not the travesty that was the film Darkest Hour.

[LMcD]

Again like Drummond the reality is more complex than the myth.
Churchill was very far from being some sort of irascible semi-dictator. He was a master politician - perhaps the greatest in our history - in the key skill at winning people round . Not just through oratory though there was plenty of that but through shrewd diplomacy and persuasion , One key text ‘Five Days in London May 1940’ by the Yale historian John Lukacs. The real story of how he resisted demands to come to terms with Hitler - not the travesty that was the film Darkest Hour.

.... but surely not as awful as Brian Cox's 'Churchill'?

[Ein Heldenleben]

.... but surely not as awful as Brian Cox's 'Churchill'?

The Albert Finney portrayal of the wilderness years got closer . That was a good piece of work …I think Vanessa Redgrave was Clemmie. He got his mixture of gruffness and sentimentality.
My problem with Darkest Hour is not Oldman’s rather good performance but the inaccuracy of its historical telling . He did not undermine the cabinet by appealing to the party. The party largely hated him .
He also tacitly agreed to overtures through the Swedes to Mussolini perhaps as a way of buying time, Rather than ranting or going on the Tube without any military escort to sound public opinion he subtly persuaded members of the Cabinet and left Halifax isolated. It was absolutely masterly politics and completely beyond our current generation of incompetents. He also managed to get lots of people to fund his extravagant tastes and no one batted an eyelid !

[antongould]

Emma Clarke is meeting my approval! No need for Pillar Box Red 24-point caps here!

And wasn't that a great LvB Triple Concerto (one movement only, but hey...)?

haven’t listened yet, but one area in which she leaves Elizabeth for dead is on the Twitter/Threads circus …… 9 tweets before and during the programme ….. some with pictures …… !!!!!!

[AuntDaisy]

You heard part of one movement - you sound like just the kind of listener we're looking for!

The birds and our dog also needed breakfast; and there were the greenhouse tomatoes to check on - busy, busy, busy...

I'll pop Beethoven triple / Brahms double concerto CD (Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Richter) on later and listen to the whole of piece.

[LMcD]

The Albert Finney portrayal of the wilderness years got closer . That was a good piece of work …I think Vanessa Redgrave was Clemmie. He got his mixture of gruffness and sentimentality.
My problem with Darkest Hour is not Oldman’s rather good performance but the inaccuracy of its historical telling . He did not undermine the cabinet by appealing to the party. The party largely hated him .
He also tacitly agreed to overtures through the Swedes to Mussolini perhaps as a way of buying time, Rather than ranting or going on the Tube without any military escort to sound public opinion he subtly persuaded members of the Cabinet and left Halifax isolated. It was absolutely masterly politics and completely beyond our current generation of incompetents. He also managed to get lots of people to fund his extravagant tastes and no one batted an eyelid !

Just to avoid confusion: Robert Hardy played Churchill in the series called 'The Wilderness Years' and Albert Finney played him in 'The Gathering Storm'.

[french frank]

You heard part of one movement - you sound like just the kind of listener we're looking for!

The obvious point to make: why, just because one listener can only hear a portion of a piece of music at a particular moment, is no one else allowed to hear the rest? Thousands of different listeners do different things at different times. One snatch of a piece may please 17 listeners who coincidentally all have to stop listening at the same moment. It makes no sense to try and second guess what "the listeners" want to do at any given moment. But with perseverance even Pavlovian dogs could be trained to react in certain ways .