The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[oddoneout]

Not sure if we have a specific Sunday Breakfast thread, but just checking the schedule this morning I see that the programme is described as follows:

Classical escape

Breakfast
Martin Handley presents Radio 3's classical breakfast show with music that captures the mood of Sunday morning. Email 3breakfast@bbc.co.uk

What are we supposed to be escaping from?

Unfortunately( and I know it isn't MH's fault) I escaped from Sunday Breakfast. I didn't come in at the beginning but there seemed to be a great deal of chat about R3 output for the coming week, in addition to the ads, and I just wasn't in the mood. Coupled with finding that my broadband had given up any attempt at service(and is still very twitchy now) so I couldn't enjoy my weekly exchange of news in a garden column community, and the rain outside prevents garden action, has made for a less than happy Sunday. It's usually a pleasant part of the week to be looked forward to. At least there are still some other R3 programmes to look forward to.

[smittims]

I' afraid this confirms the suspicion that R3 no longer knows just what it's there for. To describe a news'n chat show as 'escape' show that they just haven't thought about it.

[french frank]

I' afraid this confirms the suspicion that R3 no longer knows just what it's there for. To describe a news'n chat show as 'escape' show that they just haven't thought about it.

The BBC now shuns anything that might be thought of as 'difficult', 'demanding' or 'stretching'. Not what people want. And of course, they're right, most people don't want that from their radio programmes. The minority that do are, unfortunately, a minority of the kind that can safely be ignored. Diversity doesn't cover that group. Yes, the BBC/R3 have the Proms and a few programmes that are at least calculated to appeal to that minority (the New Music Show, the Early Music Show, CotW) though even they are hardly 'demanding' and are in any case a small proportion of the broadcasting hours the BBC has available

The, now historical, idea of 'creating an audience' for 'good music' [sic, and with that include 'high culture'] is buried in the past.

[vinteuil]

The BBC now shuns anything that might be thought of as 'difficult', 'demanding' or 'stretching'. Not what people want. And of course, they're right, most people don't want that from their radio programmes. The minority that do are, unfortunately, a minority of the kind that can safely be ignored. Diversity doesn't cover that group. Yes, the BBC/R3 have the Proms and a few programmes that are at least calculated to appeal to that minority (the New Music Show, the Early Music Show, CotW) though even they are hardly 'demanding' and are in any case a small proportion of the broadcasting hours the BBC has available

The, now historical, idea of 'creating an audience' for 'good music' [sic, and with that include 'high culture'] is buried in the past.

... not just radio 3 that is now against 'elitist' ' high culture' - the Arts Council too -

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/17/arts-council-england-declared-war-on-opera-and-excellence-anti-elitism

.

[french frank]

... not just radio 3 that is now against 'elitist' ' high culture' - the Arts Council too -

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/17/arts-council-england-declared-war-on-opera-and-excellence-anti-elitism

.

Well, Gordon Bennett! Call me Catherine Bennett. Today's Observer?

[french frank]

Blimey! “Terms like excellence,” the ACE authors advise, “are indicative of the way in which opera and music theatre still retains [sic = they're the same thing] unhelpful hierarchies about what kinds of work are valued.” Me, I value things that are really BAD.

[vinteuil]

... " “Terms like excellence,” the ACE authors advise, “are indicative of the way in which opera and music theatre still retains unhelpful hierarchies about what kinds of work are valued.” - and they continue : "“Good”, while permissible, should appear in inverted commas."

.

[Ein Heldenleben]

... " “Terms like excellence,” the ACE authors advise, “are indicative of the way in which opera and music theatre still retains unhelpful hierarchies about what kinds of work are valued.” - and they continue : "“Good”, while permissible, should appear in inverted commas."

.

I’d love to get an ACE grant for my jazz noodlings on the piano but to be honest in the “hierarchy of excellence” the rehearsal I saw of Madama Butterfly at ROH on Monday was way “better”. Not only that but without some form of subsidy it wouldn’t have happened and a lot of not particularly well off people (like teachers , lecturers , the retired ) wouldn’t have been able to afford it. Looking at the bookings all the cheaper seats sold out some time ago - a few seats left at £172 plus.

My problem with ACE is they put quite a bit of money into stuff that’s very worthy but artistically of questionable value . Of course those making the decisions know that but that don’t dare say it. Peter Bazalgette for example is to be seen at the opera and Wigmore Hall regularly but how often does he make it to some of the outreach work up North ? There is a lot of stuff they put money into I don’t like but I don’t have a problem with that if I can see a vestige of artistic integrity, ambition or originality in the project , I’d even stretch a point if it might attract a new audience - but some of it is both poor quality and a massive artistic self indulgence.

Unless ACE is prepared to make value judgements on artistic work I can see very little point in it surviving . The money might as well go into education or social work.

[oddoneout]

I read this the other day

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/mar/15/mary-archer-review-of-arts-council-england-to-look-at-project-quality-and-how-to-cut-costs

and now, having read the Catherine Bennett article, a "two birds with one stone" idea occurred to me.
If the argument against opera is the dead one, then why not extend that to other art forms - all that music written by people now dead(nearly said written by dead people...), paintings, sculpture, books (and the buildings that house them) etc. All dead, so don't pay for it. That would save a lot of money, to put in favoured back pockets and support the things that really matter...

[LMcD]

I' afraid this confirms the suspicion that R3 no longer knows just what it's there for. To describe a news'n chat show as 'escape' show that they just haven't thought about it.

A view that I've expressed on numerous occasions. There was certainly no escape from trailers this morning!

[Serial_Apologist]

I read this the other day

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/mar/15/mary-archer-review-of-arts-council-england-to-look-at-project-quality-and-how-to-cut-costs

and now, having read the Catherine Bennett article, a "two birds with one stone" idea occurred to me.
If the argument against opera is the dead one, then why not extend that to other art forms - all that music written by people now dead(nearly said written by dead people...), paintings, sculpture, books (and the buildings that house them) etc. All dead, so don't pay for it. That would save a lot of money, to put in favoured back pockets and support the things that really matter...

Seeing Mary Archer in the main job of discerning public taste in cultural matters calls to mind Mrs Merton's comment on Paul Daniels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj-9lSEBBm0

[french frank]

I read this the other day

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/mar/15/mary-archer-review-of-arts-council-england-to-look-at-project-quality-and-how-to-cut-costs

and now, having read the Catherine Bennett article, a "two birds with one stone" idea occurred to me.
If the argument against opera is the dead one, then why not extend that to other art forms - all that music written by people now dead(nearly said written by dead people...), paintings, sculpture, books (and the buildings that house them) etc. All dead, so don't pay for it. That would save a lot of money, to put in favoured back pockets and support the things that really matter...

Baffling. The report is going to assess 'quality'. What is that other than the "unhelpful hierarchy" of good, better, worse, very good, not very good, excellent? Perhaps they will explain what it means? It can just mean a characteristic ('The quality of mercy') but that would just be a description of artistic works. And?

[Old Grumpy]

Ironic perhaps that when turned into a word the abbreviation for Arts Council England can be either high or low in a game of cards...

... there is surely a hierarchy between these two poles!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Seeing Mary Archer in the main job of discerning public taste in cultural matters calls to mind Mrs Merton's comment on Paul Daniels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj-9lSEBBm0

She probably got the job because she’s a highly intelligent woman , a PH.D , ex University lecturer and amongst other things a leading expert in photo- voltaics. She also has a lot of experience at board level though the suspicion must be that from a Tory party view she is “one of us.”
Also her husband is a leading light in contemporary literature and owns a vast amount of very expensive Impressionist Paintings.

google Mary Archer sings Tom Lehrer . I can’t face linking to it…..

[french frank]

Also her husband is a leading light in contemporary literature and owns a vast amount of very expensive Impressionist Paintings.

Yes, that must have been the deciding factor. She doesn't seem to have had any other association with the arts. But then she is only reviewing ACE's use of funds. Oh, but ...