The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[oddoneout]

I have been under a misapprehension for several years, it seems. I thought it already came from Salford (just during the week?) and that was the sole reason why the resident of that locality was drafted in on a Saturday (saving on train fares?). Trawling through the programme until almost the end to catch the announcement crystallised why it is I find the programme format unlistenable. And yes, I do understand that what I dislike is precisely what others enjoy. Such is life.

An announcement about moves to Salford was made last year, from which it would seem that Sunday Breakfast is a separate entity from the weekday/Saturday versions?

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2022/12/bbc-radio-3-confirms-eight-programmes-moving-to-salford/

[Serial_Apologist]

I had the misfortune this morning to wake up to Breakfast, having been asleep to the company of Radio 3. Something modern-ish was being played, which then segued straight into Duke Ellington's Mood Indigo without even so much as a second's break. I believe I heard the announcer say the first piece was by Tippett, but had that even been Keith Tippett that would I have to assume never have been done on any jazz programme. Obviously I switched over in disgust, this now being the standard to which this already rightly criticised programme has dropped, but the point is, how would any newcomer to either of these pieces have known as they listened that they weren't just one?

[french frank]

Martin Handley is the only regular presenter of Breakfast who puts the music unequivocally first. Stand-ins Kate Molleson and Hannah French come very close. Petroc is a good steady pair of hands but he presides - occasionally from Truro, BTW - over a kind of magazine programme. This move is bad news!

I, who never listen, and unlike others here, have nothing at all to say about presenters, be it Martin Handley or Elizabeth Alker. Some may be 'better' than others in the individual listener's opinion.

But a gallimaufrey of 4-6 minute musical snippets, a listener's recording of the twittering of a thrush linking together musical thrush music; and a listener's recording of church bells somewhere near Pisa which reminded him of his wedding anniversary, followed by one movement of a mandolin duo by Andrea Sforgi di Pisa (get it?), which tells us nothing whatsoever about the composer (other than that he was "18th-century"), and about whom I can find out nothing (not in my Grove or, apparently(?) Wikipedia) seems to me the very opposite of what R3 set out to do: educate. Even an acknowledgement that very little is known about the composer (not even in the liner notes) would have satisfied me. Otherwise, "Lazy Sunday" seems to have been just that.

But if this is what R3's audience wants now, carefully trained by the station to expect no more, that's the way of the world.

[oddoneout]

I had the misfortune this morning to wake up to Breakfast, having been asleep to the company of Radio 3. Something modern-ish was being played, which then segued straight into Duke Ellington's Mood Indigo without even so much as a second's break. I believe I heard the announcer say the first piece was by Tippett, but had that even been Keith Tippett that would I have to assume never have been done on any jazz programme. Obviously I switched over in disgust, this now being the standard to which this already rightly criticised programme has dropped, but the point is, how would any newcomer to either of these pieces have known as they listened that they weren't just one?

It isn't standard practice to segue pieces in the morning schedules,other than for the EC Playlist results - and for that it's made clear that is what is happening and what the pieces will be and, after airing, what they were. When it does happen I find it disconcerting if there hasn't been any indication and sometimes, when they are unfamiliar and similar pieces, confusing as you mention.

[AuntDaisy]

I, who never listen, and unlike others here, have nothing at all to say about presenters, be it Martin Handley or Elizabeth Alker. Some may be 'better' than others in the individual listener's opinion.

But a gallimaufrey of 4-6 minute musical snippets, a listener's recording of the twittering of a thrush linking together musical thrush music; and a listener's recording of church bells somewhere near Pisa which reminded him of his wedding anniversary, followed by one movement of a mandolin duo by Andrea Sforgi di Pisa (get it?), which tells us nothing whatsoever about the composer (other than that he was "18th-century"), and about whom I can find out nothing (not in my Grove or, apparently(?) Wikipedia) seems to me the very opposite of what R3 set out to do: educate. Even an acknowledgement that very little is known about the composer (not even in the liner notes) would have satisfied me. Otherwise, "Lazy Sunday" seems to have been just that.

But if this is what R3's audience wants now, carefully trained by the station to expect no more, that's the way of the world.

I think the CD cover tells you everything... Andrea Sforgi di Pisa (ca. 1780). Available on YouTube for your delectation.
"To scratch you, my dears, like a mandolin(e)".

[oddoneout]

I, who never listen, and unlike others here, have nothing at all to say about presenters, be it Martin Handley or Elizabeth Alker. Some may be 'better' than others in the individual listener's opinion.

But a gallimaufrey of 4-6 minute musical snippets, a listener's recording of the twittering of a thrush linking together musical thrush music; and a listener's recording of church bells somewhere near Pisa which reminded him of his wedding anniversary, followed by one movement of a mandolin duo by Andrea Sforgi di Pisa (get it?), which tells us nothing whatsoever about the composer (other than that he was "18th-century"), and about whom I can find out nothing (not in my Grove or, apparently(?) Wikipedia) seems to me the very opposite of what R3 set out to do: educate. Even an acknowledgement that very little is known about the composer (not even in the liner notes) would have satisfied me. Otherwise, "Lazy Sunday" seems to have been just that.

But if this is what R3's audience wants now, carefully trained by the station to expect no more, that's the way of the world.

The training doesn't always work...I have mentioned previously that increasingly I find myself not listening to the whole morning schedule, and less and less often to Afternoon Concert now that has been dissected, and infected with chat and adverts.
I do like the Breakfast slots though(except Saturday), they work for getting my brain in gear to start the day and there is usually something that I didn't know/hadn't heard before. The Sunday version with its birdsong and bells is my equivalent of the papers and breakfast in bed sort of thing that others may do, and the choice of music to go with those items is part of it, not least because they may well be unfamiliar. I'm not looking for learned analysis in that situation and I doubt I'm alone in that; I can look it up later if so inclined. Time was of course that other programmes during the day would challenge the brain cells a bit more but those days are gone.

[french frank]

I do like the Breakfast slots though(except Saturday), they work for getting my brain in gear to start the day and there is usually something that I didn't know/hadn't heard before. The Sunday version with its birdsong and bells is my equivalent of the papers and breakfast in bed sort of thing that others may do, and the choice of music to go with those items is part of it, not least because they may well be unfamiliar. I'm not looking for learned analysis in that situation and I doubt I'm alone in that; I can look it up later if so inclined. Time was of course that other programmes during the day would challenge the brain cells a bit more but those days are gone.

Well, at least you have something that suits your listening requirements in the early morning. Just wait until that gets more than you can take! But I am somewhat at a loss to understand how the (mainstream) majority of classical music, and the background information about it, challenge the brain cells at any time of day.

[oddoneout]

Well, at least you have something that suits your listening requirements in the early morning. Just wait until that gets more than you can take! But I am somewhat at a loss to understand how the (mainstream) majority of classical music, and the background information about it, challenge the brain cells at any time of day.

Aw shucks - you telling me I don't need to activate my brain cells to listen properly to complete works or even, shock horror, complete concerts of "classical" music?

[french frank]

Aw shucks - you telling me I don't need to activate my brain cells to listen properly to complete works or even, shock horror, complete concerts of "classical" music?

Well, I understood people don't want to listen 'properly' at that time in the morning anyway. The revolving quotes on the FoR3 homepage from listeners and journalists - few posting here - encapsulate what this is all about:

"What everyone should be worrying about, however, is the loss of that old drip-feed of expert, uncondescending talk about music with which the BBC created and educated an audience in the first place. Will an informed audience even exist by 2030?"

"While the Third's elevated approach may have been unrealistic, Radio 3's daily systole-diastole of chatty music sequences and more formal presentations, something for quarter-listeners, something for whole, is too obliging. A truly cultural radio station? Now that would be something to pin down."

"While dedicated listeners, the ones who are devoting their whole attention to the radio, will always be a minority it is a minority that most of us belong to at least some of the time; and shouldn't broadcasters be aiming to please that minority rather than cultivating the majority's benevolent indifference?"

[oddoneout]

Well, I understood people don't want to listen 'properly' at that time in the morning anyway.

Which is why I differentiated between Breakfast/morning schedule and what should/used to appear later in the day - longer and/or complete works plus informed comment - in my earlier post.
To repeat my views(yet again), just because I listen to Breakfast and EC(although less and less now where EC is concerned) doesn't mean I approve of the creep of such approaches into the other output, nor the many other gimmicks that get foisted on longstanding R3 listeners, to the detriment of their enjoyment and continued interest or support.
I'm not sure about your implication that listening to "classical" music and informed comment about it doesn't engage the brain cells - was that really what you meant?

[french frank]

I'm not sure about your implication that listening to "classical" music and informed comment about it doesn't engage the brain cells - was that really what you meant?

Your word was "challenge" not 'engage'. How does listening to music 'challenge' if you're not listening to it 'properly' in the first place? How does a bit of factual information about a composer or piece of music 'challenge'? The extent to which it challenges is surely for the listener to decide; that is, how deeply do they want their brain to engage and process what they hear? It's no more 'challenging' than working out (pointlessly, in my view!) what piece of music was played backwards, or what piece of music might follow another piece of music, or what piece of music reminds you of the sea, the forest or the neighbour's cat.

In the end it's simply a case of some listeners getting what they enjoy and others not. It's not necessary to justify your taste.

[antongould]

I just managed to retrieve what Martin Handley said this morning on Sunday Breakfast by going to the repeat on Sounds: that he has only six months left on the programme 'before it heads off to Salford'. (We all know what that might mean...! ). I feel sad and cross that he is being taken off the programme, and hope that he will be found a programme where his musical expertise can inform what is broadcast and the scripts he writes. But I fear that may not happen. Another nail in the coffin of my R3 listening.

I feel for you KB ….. I struggle to see what structural or financial benefit can accrue from moving a single weekly programme to Salford ….

[oddoneout]

Your word was "challenge" not 'engage'. How does listening to music 'challenge' if you're not listening to it 'properly' in the first place? How does a bit of factual information about a composer or piece of music 'challenge'? The extent to which it challenges is surely for the listener to decide; that is, how deeply do they want their brain to engage and process what they hear? It's no more 'challenging' than working out (pointlessly, in my view!) what piece of music was played backwards, or what piece of music might follow another piece of music, or what piece of music reminds you of the sea, the forest or the neighbour's cat.

In the end it's simply a case of some listeners getting what they enjoy and others not. It's not necessary to justify your taste.

Depending on the work being listened to then challenge or engage is appropriate. I am talking about listening to a concert for instance where I have chosen to listen(properly, ie focusing on the matter in hand), not having the radio on in the morning where my attention will not be consistent. The challenge might be a work or composer I don't much like, for whatever reason, but feel I need to hear, or a different way of performing a work I do know. Engaging is more to do with familiarity, associations, pleasure. Either way, I prefer to believe that both are of value to my brain cells. Whether it is of more or less value than some of the gimmicks that were tried previously in the morning schedules I don't know and don't much care, as I didn't get involved with them.

[Paulie55]

#SkellersMissingAlert

Did I just hear that Georgia Mann will present Breakfast all next week ..... ????? .... !!!!

I am truly fed up of hearing Georgia Mann rabbit on about her personal life, what she bought at the weekend, her daughter, etc. I've never know anyone to prattle on and on about nothing in particular. We're NOT your friends, we are listeners AND subscribers so just play the damn music, will you? Too much chatter and too many ruddy tweets!!

[oddoneout]

I am truly fed up of hearing Georgia Mann rabbit on about her personal life, what she bought at the weekend, her daughter, etc. I've never know anyone to prattle on and on about nothing in particular. We're NOT your friends, we are listeners AND subscribers so just play the damn music, will you? Too much chatter and too many ruddy tweets!!

I wasn't up in time to hear but the schedule says Hannah French was on Breakfast duty? GM is currently doing EC and I agree she is being rather too much the chatterbox. Due to be Tom McKinney next week, which should be an improvement.
And before other, non-morning listeners, wade in - although talk is a part of said broadcasts there are limits.