The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

What I'm asking is how you get people to twiddle the tuner in the first place? They're aiming at entry-level aren't they?

Answer 1. I don't know.

Answer 2. For the Breakfast programme, the main audience would come from the R2 listenership, older, who would perhaps like a change from pop music + chat. From just after Christmas 2009, there was no longer any Wogan but the rather more frenetic Chris Evans who appealed to a younger audience. So Breakfast stoops a little more to conquer: April 2010 sees the announcement of the Charts feature, followed in May by the search for Everbody's Favourite Aria. Perhaps we must surmise that this isn't bringing in enough R2 devotees, so now we have the phone-in ...

Answer 3: on Essential Classics specifically: remember what Paul Gambaccini said back in 1996 (Radio Times interview)? He had a 'specific mission' which was to invite R4 listeners who had just been listening the Today programme to 'stay with the BBC rather than go to Classic FM'. The commissioning brief for EC also specifies that it 'should aim to hold on to as much of the breakfast audience as possible whilst drawing in new listeners from the post-Today Radio 4 switch over'. The sub-text is still to dissuade them from switching to CFM. CFM has nearing 6 million listeners: what do you imagine they listen to apart from CFM? The answer is predominantly R2 and R4 - a large pool for R3 to try to capture without damaging overall BBC radio figures.

Also, CFM changed its schedules last year: Simon Bates was to move from 8am-12pm to 9am-1pm, with a separate, new, breakfast programme beforehand. Bates pulled out, leaving CFM before the new programme started and CFM netted John Suchet, who had already been signed up for a new Sunday programme, to take over the 'flagship' programme from Bates. The plans were announced in June 2010, so R3's plan for a 9am rival must have been cooked up shortly after that. The closing date for tenders was 10 May, and the winner announced in June - time to have the first programme ready for the autumn.

Answer 4: See Answer 1. But I know what I think.

[mercia]

CFM has nearing 6 million listeners

at all times of the day/night? I've never quite understood how these numbers are arrived at. do the CFM listening-figures suddenly increase at 9am as they receive all the switch-over listeners?

[french frank]

at all times of the day/night? I've never quite understood how these numbers are arrived at. do the CFM listening-figures suddenly increase at 9am as they receive all the switch-over listeners?

No . The figure of 5.7m from last quarter is described as the 'reach'. That means that on average every week 5.7m listeners tune in at some time or another for anything from 15 mins to goodness knows how long. The station 'reaches' that number of people overall.

Most radio stations have similar patterns throughout the 24 hours: the peaks are at breakfast time and tea time - hence the development of the 'drivetime' formula aimed at people literally on the move in cars. There's a daytime trough at about 3.30pm until drivetime builds up again. R3 has, relatively, a larger audience than most stations in the evenings for the concerts while other stations are deserted by those who switch to television.

As 9am is a switchover time you don't necessarily get a big surge because some people are switching off, others switching on. On average more will switch off because there is a gradual decline in listening as the morning progresses.

[kernelbogey]

I listened today for the first 35 minutes, out of curiosity, and then switched off. I thought, at first, PT's announcements were quite crisp. Then came a mention of twitter, then emails..... And why do we need to hear from listeners about their weather?

[salymap]

It's quite hard work to keep up with the new programme I find. Like most people I have things to do in the morning and going from radio to radio, we morphed from Jack Point in the Yeomen of the Guard to something else in the kitchen. Now Satie piano music.
Think I'll save my ears, such as they are now, for the Tchaik 4 later.

[eighthobstruction]

Me feels there could ample scope here for subversive Twitter feeding and emailing....

[Carmen]

I finally switched off Breakfast this morning. Too ghastly for words. A DJ instead of a presenter, snippets of stuff from the newspapers filling in the cracks, invitations to tweet (ugh!!!), and finally the bitty music, all of which I'd heard a million times before. Time to play my CDs in the morning or maybe find a good French station and improve my French at the same time.

[french frank]

Thanks for that contribution, Carmen - and welcome.

I have copied it to the BBC Chairman. So far the email hasn't bounced, so maybe I have guessed his address correctly. It may be bounced back by his bodyguards, but they haven't done so after almost an hour ...

[mercia]

I have copied it to the BBC Chairman.

I recall reading somewhere that by posting on this forum we are automatically giving our permission to have our posts published (or words to that effect). Is one allowed to opt-out of having one's views published willy-nilly. (Is there a box to tick?).

[Lateralthinking1]

My understanding is that Simon Bates moved to Smooth very early in 2011. Astonishingly Chris Evans took over Breakfast on 2 in January 2010. Even if the changes on 3 in September 2011 were a reflection of genius in pure business terms, the flaw in its character would be its tortoise-like reactions to developments elsewhere. Smooth, now essentially a national station, is clearly in tone the obvious competitor to 2. Its wings though are clipped to some extent by the existence of many similar commercial stations. It is a field in which one presenter is much like another and yet ironically there is emphasis on personality. Hence it is crucial for such stations to draw in the well-known names. They stand out from the crowd of unknowns.

CFM is far from clear about its strategy. Every indication is that its thinking is muddled. First, it wanted to hold on to an old Radio 1 DJ then, when he decided to go, they went for an ex newsreader from ITN. There may be an assumption that there is some overlap between the light end of the BBC and the serious end of commercial broadcasting but I doubt that it is accurate. As for the notion of commonly recognised celebrities, I know old Radio 4 listeners and young Radio 1 listeners whose minds would go blank if the names Bates and Suchet were mentioned. Listeners to Radio 2 might know them both but frankly it isn't as if either would get a full house if they were to be speaking at a small theatre in Chorlton-cum-Hardy. Wogan, of course, would do but he is an exception. The main point here is that the importance of names - these names - in classical music is overstated. Old style Radio 2 and Radio 4 listeners are set in their ways. They will go elsewhere only if those stations move away from them radically. Both have only done so to a degree. I doubt in the main that such people will suddenly decide to prefer classical music to pop music or serious minded speech just because Ken Bruce or Kate Adie has moved to CFM or Radio 3. In fact, I know they wouldn't.

The proposed charts are not completely removed from the idea of pulling in the readership of Q, Empire and Gramophone. While some might associate them with pop radio, they fit into a well-established, more serious and often younger culture of interest in the arts and open-mindedness. There are connections here with the strategy of a decade ago which emphasised jazz and world music more. These are naturally crossover people. Changes on 4 also indicate a desire to connect more with that audience. But they don't know what they are doing. While such people - and I consider myself to be one - might be attracted by such innovation, they are likely to be put off by phone-in memories and cosy chit chat. In essence they aspire to learning beyond the confines of often bland domesticity. They don't want the latter to be on the radio too.

CFM benefits in audience reach by not having commercial competition. That is why its figures are so impressive when set aside those of Smooth, Heart and the many other stations of that type. If there were three other commercial stations offering slightly different angles on the presentation of classical music - one with a soap, one with a lot of news content, one with an emphasis on opera, the numbers for R3 would look healthy enough without it having to do anything. Currently the duopoly is distorting management perspectives and behaviour. It is also outmoded, reminiscent of the days when BBC1 only competed with ITV. The changes to Breakfast etc therefore place RW in 1955, however cool and cocky the new look might seem.

[french frank]

I recall reading somewhere that by posting on this forum we are automatically giving our permission to have our posts published (or words to that effect). Is one allowed to opt-out of having one's views published willy-nilly. (Is there a box to tick?).

Nope. That is to say, the messages will be picked up by the search engines and appear when people use google &c.

Since the majority of people here use pseudonyms one might wonder why their pseudonyms might wish to have the content of their messages restricted to the forum members ... Why would 'toodlums' not want any further reference made to the fact that they had said they enjoyed the performance by the Simón Bolívar Orchestra?

[mercia]

Why would 'toodlums' not want any further reference made to the fact that they had said they enjoyed the performance by the Simón Bolívar Orchestra?

oh yes, fair enough, but when you said you had copied Carmen's comment into an email to the chairman, wouldn't Carmen have any say about that? (is that how my silly off-the-cuff comment about Breakfast ended up in The Telegraph?)

[barber olly]

oh yes, fair enough, but when you said you had copied Carmen's comment into an email to the chairman, wouldn't Carmen have any say about that? (is that how my silly off-the-cuff comment about Breakfast ended up in The Telegraph?)

No it was probably because someone from The Telegraph had enough IT savvi to be able to google, copy and paste on to a word doc.

[french frank]

oh yes, fair enough, but when you said you had copied Carmen's comment into an email to the chairman, wouldn't Carmen have any say about that?

My assumption was that if 'Carmen' (who he/she?) had posted the comment here in full view of the BBC chairman, should he care to pop in for any reason, then 'Carmen' (who he/she?) would have no objection to it being passed on to the chairman who might be too busy to, erm, pop in for any reason ... I think 'Carmen', unlike me, will not be subject to BBC reprisals.

[mangerton]

My assumption was that if 'Carmen' (who he/she?) had posted the comment here in full view of the BBC chairman, should he care to pop in for any reason, then 'Carmen' (who he/she?) would have no objection to it being passed on to the chairman who might be too busy to, erm, pop in for any reason ... I think 'Carmen', unlike me, will not be subject to BBC reprisals.

That's a perfectly reasonable assumption. People who post anything in a public place surely must realise that their postings may reappear in places likely and unlikely.

I do hope you are not subject to reprisals, ff, either from the BBC or others.