The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30205

    Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
    (To be honest I cannot listen to radio news at all - all I hear are duff edits.)
    I've just read an article by a New York Times copy editor about the mistakes that haunt them, especially the ones that they realise long after it's too late to amend them - I can confirm a sort of photographic memory of those mistakes which surge into your mind hours later. I was walking home from work at about 12.30am, almost home after a 35-minute walk. I'd spent ages on a new computer trying to work out how to put accents over letters and spent far too long over a restaurant review. Suddenly the image "crême brûlée" flashed into my mind. Having spent ages trying to discover how to type a circumflex … and having taught French for years …

    So I have some sympathy. It's been said that the sad lot of the sub-editor is that if you miss someone else's mistake, you're pilloried, if you correct a mistake, no one ever knows you've done it.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • muzzer
      Full Member
      • Nov 2013
      • 1190

      Originally posted by antongould View Post
      IIRC in my early days as a frequent listener SMP used to read the news - very well IMVVHO - as well as presenting Breakfast ..... but I don’t think Rob C did on his shifts .......
      Seconded re SMP.

      Comment

      • oddoneout
        Full Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 9135

        Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
        Radio Three bulletins used to be what is called straight reads i.e 2 to 3 minutes worth of news headlines read by one announcer usually drawn from a small pool of announcers who work largely for Radio 3 and Radio 4 . Because of COVID and the need to cut to the bare minimum the number of people travelling into central London and working in offices I guess the decision was made to pool all the radio network bulletins and create a sustaining service . I am just guessing that the Radio 2 news service was made the sustaining service - I don’t have any inside knowledge . Back in prehistory I worked in Radio News and I am pretty sure There are still separate writing styles for each of the four main networks , different stories are selected and different production techniques employed e.g the use of clips in Radio 2 bulletins. Whether this creates a more ‘aggressive’ feel is in the ear of the listener. Another difference will be that those audio clips will be compressed- creating arguably an “in your face “ feel. The writing style will also be more urgent and punchy than that of traditional Radio 3 bulletins.
        I could be completely wrong but I have listened to thousands of hours of both R2 and R3 bulls over the years...
        It does make sense but it didn't happen until very recently that R3 had the R2 version, so what has changed in the meantime? I don't know about the things you mention resulting in a more 'aggressive' feel, but what it does feel like to me is when people raise their voices to attract the attention of, or talk over, other people who aren't listening. As a R3 listener, who does listen rather than just let the sound slosh around as a backdrop, it is unpleasantly intrusive - and the content doesn't help.

        Comment

        • Ein Heldenleben
          Full Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 6726

          Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
          It does make sense but it didn't happen until very recently that R3 had the R2 version, so what has changed in the meantime? I don't know about the things you mention resulting in a more 'aggressive' feel, but what it does feel like to me is when people raise their voices to attract the attention of, or talk over, other people who aren't listening. As a R3 listener, who does listen rather than just let the sound slosh around as a backdrop, it is unpleasantly intrusive - and the content doesn't help.
          I think the pooled bulletins started in the March 2020 lockdown.

          Comment

          • oddoneout
            Full Member
            • Nov 2015
            • 9135

            Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
            I think the pooled bulletins started in the March 2020 lockdown.
            Must confess I can't remember clearly that far back but I'm pretty certain they weren't what we are getting now - that I would have remembered - and they did go back to the R3 standard version at some point during the year.

            Comment

            • Old Grumpy
              Full Member
              • Jan 2011
              • 3594

              Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
              ...they did go back to the R3 standard version at some point during the year.
              When the first lockdown was eased and staff could return to BH?

              Comment

              • antongould
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 8774

                Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                I was amused by her protestation that she’s not into panto, given that a good number of the people pictured in that round are well-known outside that realm. She was lucky that Johnnie Walker came up with a completely off the wall 100 answer!

                Still, fair play to her I say.
                And for all the stick she gets here for her Breakfast role (not the happiest of fits, I agree), I think she deserves credit for the range of talent she showcases on Unclassified. There, I’ve said it.

                Lady Gould has now allowed me to watch and I never doubted Alkers for a moment ..... a class (and tall) act indeed ......

                Comment

                • oddoneout
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 9135

                  Originally posted by Old Grumpy View Post
                  When the first lockdown was eased and staff could return to BH?
                  Possibly although if the morning programmes can be presented from home why not the news updates?

                  Comment

                  • Ein Heldenleben
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 6726

                    Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                    Possibly although if the morning programmes can be presented from home why not the news updates?
                    It’s because newsreaders are an integral part of the news team and have to work very closely with them in the production of a bulletin.It’s more last minute than general radio presentation and the stakes are much higher if an error is made.

                    Comment

                    • underthecountertenor
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 1584

                      Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                      Must confess I can't remember clearly that far back but I'm pretty certain they weren't what we are getting now - that I would have remembered - and they did go back to the R3 standard version at some point during the year.
                      Whereas I distinctly remember that they were pretty much exactly what they are now (only the news is different - worse). They did indeed revert when lockdown was relaxed, as I think I’ve already mentioned.

                      Comment

                      • Leinster Lass
                        Banned
                        • Oct 2020
                        • 1099

                        I took the precaution of hiding behind the sofa while listening to the 0800 bulletin - to my admittedly untrained ears, it didn't sound particularly aggressive - but I'm probably further away from Broadcasting House than many of you, and the Irish Sea may have a mellowing effect.

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30205

                          I had a vague memory that stations sharing news bulletins was first mooted some years BCd-19 as a cost-cutting exercise, maybe c. 2015. Not sure that it actually happened and I'd need to go through dusty boxes in the cellar (now marked TO BE SHREDDED) to find the reference. Can't see it reported anywhere more accessible e.g. t'internet.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • Old Grumpy
                            Full Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 3594

                            Originally posted by Leinster Lass View Post
                            I took the precaution of hiding behind the sofa while listening to the 0800 bulletin - to my admittedly untrained ears, it didn't sound particularly aggressive - but I'm probably further away from Broadcasting House than many of you, and the Irish Sea may have a mellowing effect.

                            Comment

                            • hmvman
                              Full Member
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 1095

                              Originally posted by Leinster Lass View Post
                              I took the precaution of hiding behind the sofa while listening to the 0800 bulletin - to my admittedly untrained ears, it didn't sound particularly aggressive - but I'm probably further away from Broadcasting House than many of you, and the Irish Sea may have a mellowing effect.
                              I'm deaf in one ear at the moment due to wax and that helps too at news bulletin time...

                              Comment

                              • Cockney Sparrow
                                Full Member
                                • Jan 2014
                                • 2280

                                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                                I had a vague memory that stations sharing news bulletins was first mooted some years BCd-19 as a cost-cutting exercise, maybe c. 2015. Not sure that it actually happened and I'd need to go through dusty boxes in the cellar (now marked TO BE SHREDDED) to find the reference. Can't see it reported anywhere more accessible e.g. t'internet.
                                Private Eye has run regular stories about the integration of news gathering and output in the BBC to achieve the required cost savings. I now hear the same material in the daytime on radio and then see the interview in TV news - not for all subjects though. Its a plan masterminded by Kamal Ahmed Editorial Director of BBC News. My impression (reinforced by WIA) is that BBC News is a fiercely independent fiefdom within the BBC but Davey didn't put a stop to the "go button" which I think was a date in recent months (I'm behind with my Eye reading, apart from the health contributions by MD).

                                Insiders feel it will be a disaster, but who knows how it will pan out. A wave of departures - some enticed to Times Radio (never listened) as it was no secret what was coming. Today programme R4 lost its dedicated reporters so cannot generate its own stories - Sarah Sands editor decided it was time to "move on" - not that her successor has changed the style to allow interviewees time to give decent replies. Newsnight (BBC2 TV) seems to be hanging on to some reporter resources. Mark Mardell gave an interview on his retirement saying he was relieved to be going, given what was happening.

                                So generic news and random newscasters could prove to be the future, or it might be temporary because of the restrictions from the Pandemic. I'm glad they are still crediting the studio managers and staff who are turning out and running risks to work in BBC Facilities.

                                Comment

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