The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

I feel the profile would be interesting and have tried above to give you honest answers from a sample of one.
I would still like you to answer the questions or I will start referring to you as french cameron!

Well, I have on two occasions answered your questions to the extent of my ability to do so . The important answer is not what I might hazard as a guess but what the management of Radio 3 intends. I think they are the only ones who know what kind of listener they are trying to attract.

My answer would be totally sceptical: I think they're trying to attract as many listeners as they can who just might have a bit of an interest in some nice easy music and a bit of fun banter - of whom there must be millions - which is to say a 'lowest common denominator'; then they can say that R3 is giving more value for money because it's increasing its reach. That's my view because I'm prejudiced (which isn't, of course, to say that my prejudice isn't justified).

On new listeners: should R3 target casual listeners with low expectations or people who genuinely want to explore further and don't want all the mush? There are more of the first group, fewer of the second. But is the service to develop a smaller, informed audience more appropriate than to attract a larger casual audience? Should R3 try to poach listeners who otherwise would be satisfied with CFM? Isn't that unfair competition given that R3's millions of public funding are guaranteed while CFM has to work hard to earn its revenue in the market place?

[There are people working for Radio 3 who don't know what it's all about.]

[antongould]

Is there an ounce of acceptance that people who love classical music form a very broad church? If so is it wrong that this broad church includes people who do not hate texts, chat, requests even phone calls in Breakfast?

One more groundhog and then I shall disappear! This was the question(s) I was looking for an answer to - you have answered many other questions for which, as ever, I thank you!

[french frank]

Is there an ounce of acceptance that people who love classical music form a very broad church?

Ah, well the answer is self evidently, yes, of course.

If so is it wrong that this broad church includes people who do not hate texts, chat, requests even phone calls in Breakfast?

Yes, of course it includes such people. This is populist broadcasting which by definition attracts a 'broad church' some of whom like classical music.

But what follows from that? Should Radio 3 turn off one set of classical music lovers to satisfy another set of classical music lovers with material which is unconnected with classical music? Many classical music lovers like Doctor Who/Torchwood: but should Radio 3 (à la Radio 4 Extra) introduce a Torchwood feature into the Breakfast programme? Let's not forget that there isn't much that's at all challenging about the rest of the menu: Breakfast is just at the bottom of a not very demanding schedule.

A popular radio station serves up to a broad audience, broad brush, what that intended audience likes and clamours for. That's why it's popular. A minority radio station focuses on a narrower range for an audience which looks for more specialised coverage. Radio 3's flirting with populism in the name of some grand 'inclusive' mission undermines its role as a serious broadcaster, since virtually the entire classical schedule is now reoriented towards attracting as many of those 'new listeners' as possible. What's left of its in-depth 'added value'?

Another question, though: do you actually enjoy listening to a series of messages on the lines of 'I prefer Jane Eyre', 'I prefer Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre's wet'?

[antongould]

Oh dear fellow Groundhog we must stop or everyone will switch off, if they haven't already! But you asked ..........I do quite enjoy audience participation but it is the broad church thing again I came from Wogan where it was more or less the show and to me and millions of others very enjoyable. So on coming to Breakfast it was rather less of what i was already used to ayway!

[longinus]

Have you seen the letter in this morning's Times?:
"Sir, With Radio 3's morning schedules now firmly in the realm of light entertainment, where can one turn to escape the endless repetition of popular potboilers? Such paltry fare is not enhanced by the constant flow of drivel invited from listeners and presented with unbounded enthusiasm by the presenters.
"Young listeners in particular eager to expand their musical experience must surely despair of this once splendid source of inspired education."
from John W Holladay of Bessingham Norfolk.
Wish I'd written that.

[Frances_iom]

Btw frances, the characters appearing in 672 are fact not fiction. Details as heard this R3 am.
Twice.

I now listen to about 5 mins until the 7.30 news after that off (Saturday with Martin Handley usually fares better - he survives to 8am news) - someone must be listening to this twaddle but not I. I merely hope that RW's departure comes before R3's total demise tho I'm no longer hopeful that it will, as I suspect RW will gain his gong(3rd class) for overseeing the destruction of a once great radio station.

[french frank]

Oh dear fellow Groundhog we must stop or everyone will switch off, if they haven't already!

"Thay haif said, Quhat say thay, Lat thame say", as we frequently intoned in Eburdeen.

But you asked ..........I do quite enjoy audience participation but it is the broad church thing again I came from Wogan where it was more or less the show and to me and millions of others very enjoyable.

I appreciate your comments, and I can think of at least two 'Friends' who would share your views.

Nevertheless, it seems to me a matter of where Radio 3's focus should lie, and what it is for. I need an answer as to where musically semi-educated people like me should look for further exploration of the musical canon. I know far less than many other people who frequent these boards (as must be obvious ) yet I am finding Radio 3 not accessible but sick-making. I believe there are depths below which it shouldn't sink. There is an audience which it has ceased to cater for. Totally. It isn't just the wretched Breakfast Show; the popularisation is infiltrating every part of the schedule.

Are they able to quantify the number of 'new listeners' who progress beyond the blather of Breakfast? If none (and clearly, that doesn't include you, since you listen to the concerts), then send them back to Radio 2 and let Radio 3 listeners return to more intelligent broadcasting. <ahem >

Culturally, I am homeless, destitute, since Radio 3 has given a vast swathe of listeners a choice between Radio 2 and Radio 3 (to say nothing of Classic FM), and me nothing at all. It's the 'flight from intelligence'.

[Norfolk Born]

Have you seen the letter in this morning's Times?:
"Sir, With Radio 3's morning schedules now firmly in the realm of light entertainment, where can one turn to escape the endless repetition of popular potboilers? Such paltry fare is not enhanced by the constant flow of drivel invited from listeners and presented with unbounded enthusiasm by the presenters.
"Young listeners in particular eager to expand their musical experience must surely despair of this once splendid source of inspired education."
from John W Holladay of Bessingham Norfolk.
Wish I'd written that.

Is that anywhere near Bressingham (where I once rode on the footplate of the 'Oliver Cromwell')?

[longinus]

It says "Bessingham" in the Times, which seems to be a couple of miles inland from Cromer. So, not near.

[salymap]

Is that anywhere near Bressingham (where I once rode on the footplate of the 'Oliver Cromwell')?

Oh yes,me too. That wonderful garden centre with all those cars and trains. Can't remember its name though. Was it Alan Bloom ?

Sorry back to Breakfast...............

[Norfolk Born]

Alan Bloom was indeed for many years the guiding spirit at Bressingham Gardens, through which he would regularly drive the miniature train in his driver's overalls and cap.
And I'm grateful to longinus for the information re. Bessingham - which, I find, has a church with a round tower!

[Serial_Apologist]

Blooming good name!

[Old Grumpy]

All this idle Norfolk chat is giving the "Breakfast" thread a bad name, whatever next, texts, phone-ins? Lets get back to the music!

[Suffolkcoastal]

Alan Bloom was indeed for many years the guiding spirit at Bressingham Gardens, through which he would regularly drive the miniature train in his driver's overalls and cap.
And I'm grateful to longinus for the information re. Bessingham - which, I find, has a church with a round tower!

It does indeed ofcachap, lovely little church. Just to prove how much the 'popular classics' have increased over last year, the Four Seasons has already passed last years total and will probably double it, the Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet is already close to last years total as are Slavonic and Hungarian Dances and Carmen and Barber's Adagio is already equal to last year and that was Barber's anniversary year, and we aren't quite 2/3ds of the way through the year! Plus we lost 12 days due to that Mozart thingy. Incidentally even taking out the works played during the Mozart fest he is still the most broadcast composer in terms of works/extracts, currently ahead of J S Bach for the 1st time since I started monitoring what is being broadcast.

[Lateralthinking1]

How many times a year for Nessun Dorma? I enjoyed it. It is a wonderful piece of music for this time of day - better than most of the pieces played. Nevertheless, it is, erm, fairly well known. When I say "this time of day", I should explain that I am listening to Friday's broadcast. Time is irrelevant to me. I don't need the frequent time checks. Ah, yes, here's Night on a Bare Mountain. I see what people mean. Earlier, there was a comment about school exam results with some quotes from the papers. Not really needed. And then came another news item that wrong-footed me before leaving me completely "gobsmacked". Ms M-P mentioned an article about an opera. Oh, I thought, so they are gearing some of the news to things musical and traditional. That's the stuff.

Yet it turned out that the opera was "Gaddafi :A Living Myth". No, I hadn't heard of it either. Which is a surprise. Because it was then revealed that said piece was a dub-punk opera featuring Asian Dub Foundation. Having received huge amounts of Art Council money, it is now seen as being controversial. It told the story of how wonderful it was to be living in Col G's Libya. Now I'm a worldy, sometimes slightly rocky, kind of guy. As it happens, I own three ADF cds but I should explain to the uninitiated that they are not quite what one would expect in a collection of a guy aged nearly fifty. Rather sadly they are a way for me to pretend that I am recapturing my youth. I see them as The Clash made sort of British Asian and modern. Are you all still with me? Wonderful.

It would be entirely fair to say that ADF have never been mentioned on Classic FM. After all, Wikipedia describes them as "a British electronica band that plays a mix of rapcore, dub, dancehall and ragga, also using rock instruments, acknowledging a punk influence. Their distinctive sound also combines indo-dub basslines, searing sitar-inspired guitars and ‘traditional’ sounds, shot through with fast-chat conscious lyrics". The advertisers would run a mile. But the BBC is nothing if not perverse. How often have I thought "now ADF are the sort of band that should be featured more on R1", not that I listen to that station. I just know that they are generally overlooked in favour of all things American or at least those corn flake friendly gangstas from the ghetto. I don't mean to be disparaging to anyone but I would imagine the reference meant absolutely nothing to 98% of people tuned into 3.

Overall, the programme is at best ok-ish. In fact, here is my favourite composer Vaughan Williams. And, oh dear, it is the predictable Greensleeves. I haven't liked the trailers. They are everywhere now and, in truth, 4 gets it much worse. My main reason for not listening to CFM is that I just wouldn't want to hear commercials around classical music. At least, 3 spares us those. Some years down the line, I might be able to talk about classical music more knowledgeably. Who knows? But if I am, if I decide that I want to listen to decent classical music every day at breakfast time, the only options would be cds or downloads. I will stop here. Enough sketching. And I'm about to switch off the programme as they have just moved on to Simon Bates' "Our Tune".