The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[Suffolkcoastal]

Might it not be a good use of some of the BBC's (by which I mean our) money to either put Radio 3 out of its misery, i.e. close it down, or flog it off, and plough the savings/proceeds, modest though they would very probably be, into BBC4, which is under threat but doesn't deserve to be?

I now beginning to honestly believe that RW has been brought in to deliberately sabotage R3 to such an extent, that it drives the listeners away and the BBC can be rid of the station. I'm also convinced that certain influential people in this country want to 'do away' with broadcast classical music and other 'minority' music genres altogether, allowing only the tasteless cheap S Cowell trash to be played and the masses to be only spoon fed this inane dribble whilst certain people line their pockets.

[Andrew Slater]

Of course the real meaning of the programme's title is 'Break (R3) Fast'.

At least we listeners can switch this bilge off. I feel sorry for the presenters, who are saddled with it. To add insult to injury, they will probably be remembered as the people who wrecked Radio 3.

[Old Grumpy]

Well, I must admit that I still quite like the Breakfast programme during my morning drive to work. I must admit though that I do find the txting and emails a little unecessary and I do not look forward to the prospect of people phoning in. It will be a shame when Rob moves to the other programme. I think the concept of playing shorter pieces of music during the "drivetime" slot is not a bad idea. I have been listening to Radio 3 in the morning for some years now (as a refugee from the Today programme on radio 4) - I can't honestly say that I have noticed a significant difference in the general approach to the types of music played since the days of Penny Gore on Morning on 3 - the main difference is the inclusion of discussion of news items, texts and emails.

[Frances_iom]

... I think the concept of playing shorter pieces of music during the "drivetime" slot is not a bad idea. ...

Playing shorter pieces is not the main failing but the inane chatter, adverts and appearance of a playlist in that certain items seem to be repeated very frequently. I must admit I find the logic strange - in thatf or example a single 5 minute movement of a trio can be played whereas the whole work occupies 15min or so and if the punters can accept a random movement why noy put 3 or four movements together in the sequence that the composer thought best ?

[doversoul1]

You have to hear to believe this. I did but I still cannot believe it. SMP has just read out a soprano joke and an oboe joke, (nothing too wrong in itself if it is in the right context) and has ‘invited’ listeners to send in more…. or did I misheard her? If I did hear her correctly, I don’t honestly think I shall last until the end of the Proms. It is now a simple physical habit I turn the radio on in the morning. I am almost beginning to dread what I might hear….

Andrew

At least we listeners can switch this bilge off. I feel sorry for the presenters, who are saddled with it. To add insult to injury, they will probably be remembered as the people who wrecked Radio 3.

Exactly my thought.

In the old BBC Boards, when the introduction of the chart was announced, someone said (posted) that it was like watching helplessly and hopelessly a good friend descending into a drug addiction. Even then, I did not imagine it would get to this.

[ed.] 8:10am. I did not mis-heard it. I have turned the radio off. This is indeed a sad day…

[old khayyam]

I now beginning to honestly believe that RW has been brought in to deliberately sabotage R3 to such an extent, that it drives the listeners away and the BBC can be rid of the station

Very probably correct, Sc. I have suspected the same gameplay with local pubs, where a thriving traditional boozer inexplicably has a new and inept management installed, who last maybe a couple of years, only for it to be declared a 'failing' or 'troubled' enterprise requiring either total makeover (gastropub) or selling for assets (shops/flat/demolition).

[french frank]

I can't honestly say that I have noticed a significant difference in the general approach to the types of music played since the days of Penny Gore on Morning on 3 - the main difference is the inclusion of discussion of news items, texts and emails.

Except that Morning on 3 was already a 'drivetime' programme made up of shorter pieces of music. The Breakfast ones have gradually got shorter and shorter. Exactly how much shorter is disguised by the playlist timings which don't account for the amount of talk.

And I can remember about ten years ago when the BBC Annual Report announced that there would be less speech on what was then called 'On Air' - I think because listeners didn't like it.

I'm now wondering whether this is to do with the PRS charges for 'needle time' going up. More talk means less music which means lower charges.

I'm going to time the amount of speech v. music on yesterday's programme. Could anyone bear to do so for today's?

[Norfolk Born]

You have to hear to believe this. I did but I still cannot believe it. SMP has just read out a soprano joke and an oboe joke, (nothing too wrong in itself if it is in the right context) and has ‘invited’ listeners to send in more…. or did I misheard her? If I did hear her correctly, I don’t honestly think I shall last until the end of the Proms. It is now a simple physical habit I turn the radio on in the morning. I am almost beginning to dread what I might hear….

Andrew
Exactly my thought.

In the old BBC Boards, when the introduction of the chart was announced, someone said (posted) that it was like watching helplessly and hopelessly a good friend descending into a drug addiction. Even then, I did not imagine it would get to this.

[ed.] 8:10am. I did not mis-heard it. I have turned the radio off. This is indeed a sad day…

There was a much better selection of jokes on the 'Today' programme, and it appears that there is already a thread on this Forum discussing the winners in the Edinburgh Fringe competition sponsored by 'Dave'.

[old khayyam]

I'm now wondering whether this is to do with the PRS charges for 'needle time' going up. More talk means less music which means lower charges

This is a consideration. But as i mentioned once earlier, are they not, for the most part, playing music by dead composers, or at least older than the statutory 50 years after which it is released into Public Domain?

Plus, this would contradict yesterday's point about Specialist Classical Chart product placement payola.

[salymap]

Not on Breakfast but after last night's Prom the RT stated it was repeated from the 31st August.

Obviously the Time Lord has a hand in checking the RT now.

[french frank]

But as i mentioned once earlier, are they not, for the most part, playing music by dead composers, or at least older than the statutory 50 years after which it is released into Public Domain?

That's a different issue. The record company and the performer(s) have rights on the public playing of a particular commercial recording. It's only the old composer who doesn't get anything.

[old khayyam]

That's a different issue. The record company and the performer(s) have rights on the public playing of a particular commercial recording. It's only the old composer who doesn't get anything.

I see. So even if a composition is in Public Domain, a record company can still charge for work done on a recording of it, and an artist can charge for their recital? Is that right? And is it not the case that those rights also are relinquished after 50 years?

Either way, we cannot accuse R3 of payola from the SCC and overtalking to avoid PRS, surely?

[Anna]

I don't listen to Breakfast, preferring either silence or Today but I thought I would give it a whirl this morning.

She was going to play an extract from Rinaldo by Handel around 7.50 and she said: There's Handel, chugging along doing those repetitive da capo arias and suddenly there's one of those moments that makes you sit up and wonder 'Where on earth does he get that from?'

Luckily I had to switch off then but also, I see now what people mean about emailing their fave piece and you might get it played, And the jokes emailed in were very pretty lame as well.

[Frances_iom]

Either way, we cannot accuse R3 of payola from the SCC and overtalking to avoid PRS, surely?

yes we can - apples and oranges - the overtalking is a management decision to reduce the average needle time/programme (asymptotes to zero which judging from last couple of years can't be that far off at least for period 7.30 to 8am) + the payola because the programme merely accepts a prepared platter of excerpts that those in the trade wish to push that week which is where the payola comes in.

[french frank]

The problem with this programme is that you're not supposed to be listening too carefully or taking anything seriously, so criticising it because it's trivial and feeble seems to be saying it's doing its job.

According to my calculations, yesterday 142 minutes of the 180 minute programme was actually music. Eight minutes of news and 30 minutes (so, half an hour out of three hours) of mainly chatter - reading emails and text messages from people saying whether they preferred Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights, three mentions of 'Your Call', how to win Proms tickets, Petroc telling us about In Tune, Sarah telling us about Classical Collection, an account of Becky's youth hostelling holiday, and various mentions of items in the Telegraph (photo of the Houses of Parliament, tourist tax in Venice, Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights). There were about three minutes or so of Stephen Johnson giving a quick run-down on Tchaikovsky's 4th (last night's Prom) for people who didn't know the work.

Of 27 pieces, the longest (Arnold's PC for 3 hands) was 13.24; next Beethoven's Coriolan overture, 9 mins; third, Handel's As with rosy steps at 8.14. The excerpt from Tchaikovsky's 4th was almost 8 mins. Most of the rest lasted 3-6 minutes.

The selection included:

Strauss, Thunder & Lightning polka
'Albinoni's Adagio'
A track (of 'Morales', not further identified) from the 'very popular' Hilliard/Garbarek CD Officium
Offenbach's Can-Can (a late insertion)
O Fortuna ... (which featured in an Old Spice ad, it says here)
Overture to the Bartered Bride
Music for the Royal Fireworks
Prelude to L'Arlésienne Suite No. 1
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, 1st movement (Becky's holiday choice)

Add a Chopin Mazurka, 3rd mvt of CPE Bach Cello Concerto, a Dvořák Bagatelle, last mvt from Hummel's Trumpet Concerto, 1st mvt from Debussy Violin Sonata, Beethoven's Coriolan, last mvt of Tchaikovsky 4, Kapustin Sonatina ...

Nowadays, I'm never too sure when I hear an unfamiliar pronunciation on R3 whether it's me or them. There were two definites and one probable mispronunciation of names: it's not Barbarosso [sic] but Barabasso; I've always said KaPUStin, but perhaps it is KApustin?; Garbarek must have been stressed wrongly at least once, as it was stressed in two different ways. But - who remembers? who cares?


But the thing is - they've got you over a barrel. If you say you think that's a poor three hours of programming - even for 'people with little knowledge of classical music' - and not worth switching on for, you'll be brushed aside as 'elitist'. We know the retaliation: 'It's not for you. You shouldn't even be listening.' [I don't - I only listened yesterday to do an assessment. But I used to listen at that time, every morning. I gave up long before it became as trite as this ]