The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

Apologies for the rant which is not in any way intended as a personal attack.

That's a relief

Posing a question doesn't target any individual. It's a 'class query' by which I don't mean as in social class but as in 'class action'. A group of people who have something in common (e.g. they listen to Breakfast/Essential Classics) are still individuals who probably differ from each other in more ways than they they resemble them. So posing a question about 'the Breakfast listener' doesn't mean Listener A, and Listener B and You and Me. It simply asks about the feelings of a 'significant number' of that group. As I've mentioned before, my brother has a PhD, he has written books, he knows more about classical music than I do - but when he listens to the radio he listens to Classic FM, likes it and has no curiosity to investigate Radio 3. I don't assume that he is "incapable of … accessing more worthwhile intellectually challenging fare".

Anything said about a group is a generalisation.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What has Radio 3 gained? And what has it lost? This isn't a matter of who likes or doesn't like something, enjoys or hates whatever it is. It's about the wider cultural debate.

Sadly, I suspect the ineptitude of the morning programmes will lose the very listeners it's allegedly trying to recruit. Classic FM does the same thing, and (ignoring the downside of the adverts) does it better than most of the current R3 team do.

[antongould]

Sadly, I suspect the ineptitude of the morning programmes will lose the very listeners it's allegedly trying to recruit. Classic FM does the same thing, and (ignoring the downside of the adverts) does it better than most of the current R3 team do.

But how can you ignore “ the downside of the adverts “ ...... the few on Morning R3 annoy just about everyone ....... ??????

[french frank]

But how can you ignore “ the downside of the adverts “ ...... the few on Morning R3 annoy just about everyone ....... ??????

At least the R3 adverts aren't for making wills, funeral plans or installing stairlifts.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But how can you ignore “ the downside of the adverts “ ...... the few on Morning R3 annoy just about everyone ....... ??????

Perhaps the trouble with R3 adverts/trailers is the insistence in talking over classical excerpts superimposed one on top of the other. I agree that the CFM adverts are annoying too, but commercial stations have no choice. The BBC does have a choice, and proceeds to sell Schubert as though it's Pedigree Chum.

[muzzer]

Jiminy 4 pages I’ve not read. But no offence meant to EA. It’s the bosses’ fault. Her show Unclassified is superb. What ‘classical’ music ( whatever that is) needs is new to it listeners. Come one come all. And this board will nurture you too [ ale may have been taken ]

[oddoneout]

Perhaps the trouble with R3 adverts/trailers is the insistence in talking over classical excerpts superimposed one on top of the other. I agree that the CFM adverts are annoying too, but commercial stations have no choice. The BBC does have a choice, and proceeds to sell Schubert as though it's Pedigree Chum.

The main trouble with R3 adverts(apart from their existence in the first place) is that they are pushed with the frequency of TV ones(every 15 to 20 mins), but the repetition factor is tighter so that it is all too often the same one(they only do one at once) several times in a row.
CFM listeners moving across to escape adverts do comment on the R3 ones, some finding them almost as annoying, not least since there is no commercial justification.

[french frank]

CFM listeners moving across to escape adverts do comment on the R3 ones, some finding them almost as annoying, not least since there is no commercial justification.

The BBC is only selling itself (so that's all right). If adverts (however annoying) work for commercial stations, why would they not work for the BBC?

Way back in the mists of time, I discovered that the person at R3 in charge of the 'promotional' trails had a degree in music (if I remember, from Bristol University). I had the temerity to ask on the messageboard why he didn't go to Roger Wright and ask for a 'proper job' - by which, obviously, I meant one suited to someone with a music degree. All hell broke loose and I was ticked off by a producer for being 'rude' to a member of R3 staff, and the man himself turned up (I can't remember if it was an email to me or whether on the messageboard) to say that if people were angry about the trails it meant they had noticed them, so they were doing their job.

So that's us told. (Incidentally, I believe it used to be BBC Marketing that dictated how often the trails should be run, at what times, and if they were cross trails to another service, which other services had to take them.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The BBC is only selling itself (so that's all right). If adverts (however annoying) work for commercial stations, why would they not work for the BBC?

Way back in the mists of time, I discovered that the person at R3 in charge of the 'promotional' trails had a degree in music (if I remember, from Bristol University). I had the temerity to ask on the messageboard why he didn't go to Roger Wright and ask for a 'proper job' - by which, obviously, I meant one suited to someone with a music degree. All hell broke loose and I was ticked off by a producer for being 'rude' to a member of R3 staff, and the man himself turned up (I can't remember if it was an email to me or whether on the messageboard) to say that if people were angry about the trails it meant they had noticed them, so they were doing their job.

So that's us told. (Incidentally, I believe it used to be BBC Marketing that dictated how often the trails should be run, at what times, and if they were cross trails to another service, which other services had to take them.

The idea that trail making is not a ‘proper job’ is a sentiment to which “every bosom returns an echo” . Trails used to be made by producers . They then got taken over by specialist “marketeers“ and “creatives”. I am not saying trail-making is not a skill - but it is a very narrow one.
Incidentally as this appears to be an active strand can I unashamedly plug Tim MacInnerny’s magnificent poetry reading on Words and Music last night? His reading of Hardy and Donne last night had us mesmerised on a long trip on the A303.

[Cockney Sparrow]

When I do listen to any - particularly morning - output an off switch or dial within easy reach is necessary. The likes of a - for example - compressed audio, distorted and harsh John Cooper Clark crashing into my consciousness led to the need for an immediate switch off. Add to that the repetition of the very same adverts as mentioned here.

Trouble is, if I'm mainly engaged in some task - we all have lots to do - I sometimes forget to switch back on after the advert. I have got better at this - one of my offspring has a very accurate internal timer for commercial TV ad breaks, and I'm getting there.

[oddoneout]

When I do listen to any - particularly morning - output an off switch or dial within easy reach is necessary. The likes of a - for example - compressed audio, distorted and harsh John Cooper Clark crashing into my consciousness led to the need for an immediate switch off. Add to that the repetition of the very same adverts as mentioned here.

Trouble is, if I'm mainly engaged in some task - we all have lots to do - I sometimes forget to switch back on after the advert. I have got better at this - one of my offspring has a very accurate internal timer for commercial TV ad breaks, and I'm getting there.

I've mentioned this on here more than once, and also direct to BBC. As far as I'm concerned it's a double negative -so to speak - as I avoid the programme/product being trailed and I miss the output (sometimes for extended periods)after the offending item. I'm getting quite good at sensing when an intrusion will occur - adjacent to the headline slots are inevitable - and can often pre-empt hearing it all, so I don't even know what it is that is being 'sold'.

[cloughie]

I've mentioned this on here more than once, and also direct to BBC. As far as I'm concerned it's a double negative -so to speak - as I avoid the programme/product being trailed and I miss the output (sometimes for extended periods)after the offending item. I'm getting quite good at sensing when an intrusion will occur - adjacent to the headline slots are inevitable - and can often pre-empt hearing it all, so I don't even know what it is that is being 'sold'.

I dislike the trailers but I ‘m more likely to switch off music items which either I dislike or feel ‘not now!’

[french frank]

I've mentioned this on here more than once, and also direct to BBC. As far as I'm concerned it's a double negative -so to speak - as I avoid the programme/product being trailed and I miss the output (sometimes for extended periods)after the offending item. I'm getting quite good at sensing when an intrusion will occur - adjacent to the headline slots are inevitable - and can often pre-empt hearing it all, so I don't even know what it is that is being 'sold'.

It's something I can't understand. I offered them the suggestion that they might devote, say, five whole minutes, to the continuity announcer telling listeners, just before the hourly (!) news bulletin, about all the gorgeous stuff they have in store later in the day, and perhaps a few things during the week. And leave the rest of the hour to playing music, preferably a few longer pieces, with only the announcements, context and - music. They could have the programme announcements on just before 7am, 8am AND 9am. If people really had heard it enough, it would no different from hearing the same news on the hour. And people might actually find it useful, and be ready with their pencils and notebooks to note down what sounds interesting

[Frances_iom]

Lord Lever's dictum re advertising was that he knew he was wasting half his money but which half. However I suspect it being run by marketing means that no check is made on its success but that maybe yet more money should be spent to 'improve' the production + also to give the punters 'better access' ie more repetition. FF's suggestion will go down like a lead balloon - the producers of these annoyances are well paid, well connected and deaf to all comments (but this is all too typical of BBC management).

[oddoneout]

It's something I can't understand. I offered them the suggestion that they might devote, say, five whole minutes, to the continuity announcer telling listeners, just before the hourly (!) news bulletin, about all the gorgeous stuff they have in store later in the day, and perhaps a few things during the week. And leave the rest of the hour to playing music, preferably a few longer pieces, with only the announcements, context and - music. They could have the programme announcements on just before 7am, 8am AND 9am. If people really had heard it enough, it would no different from hearing the same news on the hour. And people might actually find it useful, and be ready with their pencils and notebooks to note down what sounds interesting

The frantic pushing of BBC Sounds hasn't helped since it has added to the volume of dross to be directed at us, not least by exhortations to listen again almost before the programme in question has finished, despite the fact that there will have been at least one such public service announcement during the programme itself.
During the morning schedules there will be presenter initiated references to items/programmes later in the day/week, often used as a hook for a piece to be played or theme to be followed up. That seems a good way to draw attention to such things and has the merit of not being intrusive or repetitive.