The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[LMcD]

So do I. It's always a good day when Hannah presents Breakfast. Real musical erudition worn lightly and the perfect voice. Courteous credits to the Producers.
I created an account just to say that.
In my ideal world we'd have Martin Handley back for Sundays and Hannah French every other day.

Monday/Wednesday/Friday or Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday?
(Welcome to the Forum!)

[Mcewan]

Monday/Wednesday/Friday or Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday?
(Welcome to the Forum!)

Heh! Good catch. Smart crowd here clearly :)

[Mcewan]

She couldn’t resist just now though a knowing reference to the composer Samuel Scheidt which Is a) precisely the thing you’d expect from Classic FM b) something that an experienced old hand would never do and c) 20 years ago might have taken a bit of explaining to the presentation editor. These days of course no one gives a monkey’s

Yeah, that surprised me.

[french frank]

a knowing reference to the composer Samuel Scheidt which Is a) precisely the thing you’d expect from Classic FM

Sadly, I'm not sure you would expect it from CFM these days. I think they've improved since the early days: presenters less well-informed than (some of) the R3 presenters but (from what I hear when a captive audience) they seem more respectful of the music. Looking at this morning's playlist, the composers are generally fine. But H von Bingen, L Farrenc, G Bacewicz (no F Price this morning?) represent "the ladies". Unlike some here I've no objection to 'affirmative action' , but R3 merely demonstrates how few were composing.

Much worse is 3 hours of snippets, even if they are mainly classical. Why is it more difficult to listen to 3 or 4 movements, consecutively, of the same work than to 3 or 4 separate pieces, especially when people are supposed to be 'too busy' to concentrate anyway?

[Pulcinella]

Sadly, I'm not sure you would expect it from CFM these days. I think they've improved since the early days: presenters less well-informed than (some of) the R3 presenters but (from what I hear when a captive audience) they seem more respectful of the music. Looking at this morning's playlist, the composers are generally fine. But H von Bingen, L Farrenc, G Bacewicz (no F Price this morning?) represent "the ladies". Unlike some here I've no objection to 'affirmative action' , but R3 merely demonstrates how few were composing.

Much worse is 3 hours of snippets, even if they are mainly classical. Why is it more difficult to listen to 3 or 4 movements, consecutively, of the same work than to 3 or 4 separate pieces, especially when people are supposed to be 'too busy' to concentrate anyway?

Excellent point; but of course you might be denying them the option of adding trails (though no doubt they'd break up the whole piece to add them anyway)!

[kernelbogey]

...Much worse is 3 hours of snippets, even if they are mainly classical. Why is it more difficult to listen to 3 or 4 movements, consecutively, of the same work than to 3 or 4 separate pieces, especially when people are supposed to be 'too busy' to concentrate anyway?

My theory - I don't recall it being voiced on this Forum, but willing to be corrected, of course - is that the vehicle for 'Pop' has been, since my youth in the 60s, the 3-4 minute 45rpm, 7 inch single ('forty-fives') of great fame: and that would have set an 'attention span' for all music for a general audience. Even my generation has, IMVHO, that expectation, unless you have encountered intentionally symphonies of anywhere from twenty to ninety minutes long.

Driving the other day and dropping into one of the programmes referred to by FF for a while, it occurred to me that it would be difficult to listen to a long work while driving - unless you know it well. Given that you sometimes have to focus full attention on the road, the sequence of short clips is a driver-friednly format.

[cloughie]

I think you're right.

The Devil is in the trill!

[cloughie]

Excellent point; but of course you might be denying them the option of adding trails (though no doubt they'd break up the whole piece to add them anyway)!

Halfway through a movement probably - weii what’s the difference between that and the old days of LP when Beethoven 9 (movt 3) or the SF Scenes aux Champs were split over two sides!

[LMcD]

The Devil is in the trill!

... which, you may recall, 'makes budgies bounce with health'.

[Serial_Apologist]

Sadly, I'm not sure you would expect it from CFM these days. I think they've improved since the early days: presenters less well-informed than (some of) the R3 presenters but (from what I hear when a captive audience) they seem more respectful of the music. Looking at this morning's playlist, the composers are generally fine. But H von Bingen, L Farrenc, G Bacewicz (no F Price this morning?) represent "the ladies". Unlike some here I've no objection to 'affirmative action' , but R3 merely demonstrates how few were composing.

Much worse is 3 hours of snippets, even if they are mainly classical. Why is it more difficult to listen to 3 or 4 movements, consecutively, of the same work than to 3 or 4 separate pieces, especially when people are supposed to be 'too busy' to concentrate anyway?

And sometimes these days not even an isolated movement, because recently I've heard introductions interrupted and segued into another piece entirely. Music presents stories, some short, some long. Neither we, nor the original composer of these works, want them to be heard or presented incomplete, the start of one narrative interrupted by another halfway through, or whatever, with no back story or explanation. What this does is make no sense of music at all.

[Serial_Apologist]

Halfway through a movement probably - weii what’s the difference between that and the old days of LP when Beethoven 9 (movt 3) or the SF Scenes aux Champs were split over two sides!

Now you can just turn over in your sleep, so no need to bother about that any more!

[Old Grumpy]

... which, you may recall, 'makes budgies bounce with health'.

Or may produce an interesting herbal garden if seed spilled on the ground!

[french frank]

Given that you sometimes have to focus full attention on the road, the sequence of short clips is a driver-friednly format.

Well, the main problem is that BBC Radio3 is no longer targeted on the 'selective attentive' audience but on a majority of the population doing other things at the same time. But my point was a different one: why do you have to 'focus full attention' on a full-length work if you're not focusing full attention on the shorter pieces? Do you orchestrate your full attention to coincide with the gaps between the music? One can't even claim that once the full piece begins one wants to focus on it until it ends - and can't because one needs regularly to focus on driving. The point is that you can't focus on the whole work anyway if it doesn't get played; and nor can anyone else, even if they aren't driving. What time of day is nobody driving? But I'm a full attention listener or not at all. I used to regularly drive from Bristol to Aberdeen and never had the radio on - full attention on driving.

So j'accuse! Radio 3 shortens attention spans and causes road accidents . And caters less and less for those listeners who do have the time and inclination to listen to full length works. It's mainly an easy listening station like CFM.

[oddoneout]

Yeah, that surprised me.

I did a double take, but forgave her(we don't know if it was entirely her own idea after all) for giving warning at various points of the outbreaks of advert intrusion.

[oddoneout]

Or may produce an interesting herbal garden if seed spilled* on the ground!

Sometimes seen under the windowsill of an elderly person's house as a result of blowing the chaff off the bird's seed container at an open window, and I gather the popularity of wild bird feeders has led to some 'interesting' additions to gardens. An allotment friend got a shock one year visiting her plot after a period away looking after her mother to find a large unfamiliar plant among her veg. She got into quite a state, imagining all sorts of unpleasant attention from the law( those were the days when police officers could occasionally be sighted in town...), but we reassured her, dug it up and buried it in the compost heap.

*which reminds of the story of the chap who named his budgie Onan...