The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

'a pint of Löwenbräu'. 'Oh', she said, 'You mean Lowenbrow'.

Yep, had a similar reaction when I asked for what the baker called a 'pain tradition'.

[vinteuil]

This is a question that has come up before. As a(n-ex) language specialist, I think that approximations are absolutely fine. I don't expect many non-native speakers to have a perfect accent. But some attempts are just WRONG WRONG WRONG / ... / There are tricks to articulating vowels and consonants that we don't have in English and approximations that are 'in the right direction' will do for me.

Yes, I agree -

.

... I think an ostentatiously 'correct' foreign pronunciation of a foreign word in the middle of an otherwise English sentence is ungainly. Yes, a nod to the original language is nice - but (I promise not to mention Katie Derham, honest!) - to have the English flow interrupted by a strangulated m'as-tu-vu attempt at sounds not found in the English language draws attention to itself or the speaker and gets in the way of easy absorption.

.

[french frank]

Yes, I agree -

And I probably said at the same time that my French prof when I was a student said one shouldn't mix phonetic systems in a sentence, or when conversing in one language. Not sure whether that would mean if conversing in French one should adopt a Clouseau-like accent should one need to insert sumsing in English.

[underthecountertenor]

On the other hand I brought about complete bafflement in a serving person in an English pub by requesting - in perfectly pronounced Bavarian - 'a pint of Löwenbräu'. 'Oh', she said, 'You mean Lowenbrow'.

Well, she was quite right, in the sense that that’s the universal pronunciation in English pubs. In that context I’ve only ever used the ‘perfect Bavarian pronunciation’ for an arch laugh with friends, and with bar staff only when sure that they are in on the joke.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well, she was quite right, in the sense that that’s the universal pronunciation in English pubs. In that context I’ve only ever used the ‘perfect Bavarian pronunciation’ for an arch laugh with friends, and with bar staff only when sure that they are in on the joke.

on the other hand when I ordered cher -ree -zo crisps at my local the barmaid handed them over with “and your Cher ree tho crisps “ in perfect Castilian . Turned out she was learning Spanish..

[french frank]

I have no problem with fhe pronunciation of foreign words: it's English I fail more and more often to recognise. The BBC today had 'proven' (past participle, not adjective) where i would have used 'proved'. One either strives to be part of the 'in group' or one sticks to one's guns!

[kernelbogey]

Well, she was quite right, in the sense that that’s the universal pronunciation in English pubs. In that context I’ve only ever used the ‘perfect Bavarian pronunciation’ for an arch laugh with friends, and with bar staff only when sure that they are in on the joke.

It was many years ago and seeing Lōwenbrāu in an English pub was so unusual I think I reacted as though I'd met an old friend unexpectedly!

[mopsus]

Many years ago I found myself explaining at a bar in Nice the contortions required to render the word 'Lōwenbrāu' into Greek letters. I was afterwards told by my companion that this had totally silenced the conversation of the English-speakers at the next table.

[AuntDaisy]

Just heard Petroc say (~7:30am):

Good morning if you're just switching on.Special good morning if you're a new listener to Radio 3.
Radio audience figures out today. Very proud to say well over 2 million people are listening to Radio 3. 16.5 million hours of Radio 3 consumed every single week and you're part of the Breakfast audience of 866,000 people. Which is very exciting.

---

In other news... French Frank, just realised we're missing a smug smiley (Something like Mrs. Doyle after she guessed Todd Unctious' name.)

[french frank]

Just heard Petroc say (~7:30am):

---

In other news... French Frank, just realised we're missing a smug smiley (Something like Mrs. Doyle after she guessed Todd Unctious' name.)

What a surprise! More listeners listening for longer. Never mind the quality - feel the width! There seems to be an assumption (is there?) that this means the content is also good.

[AuntDaisy]

What a surprise! More listeners listening for longer. Never mind the quality - feel the width! There seems to be an assumption (is there?) that this means the content is also good.

Is there also the implication that New Listeners are far more important to R3 than us oldies?

[french frank]

Is there also the implication that New Listeners are far more important to R3 than us oldies?

But of course, my dear Watson! One might expect something of a boost this quarter as it was Proms quarter, but it wasn't that long ago that 'just above 2 million' was considered average. Up from 1.833m last quarter to 2,039m this quarter! Fantastic! Unbelievable!

But I do believe that based on a number of factors, R3 is fighting for its life and the management/BBC view is that ANY life is better than NO life. Other opinions available.

[AuntDaisy]

But of course, my dear Watson! One might expect something of a boost this quarter as it was Proms quarter, but it wasn't that long ago that 'just above 2 million' was considered average. Up from 1.833m last quarter to 2,039m this quarter! Fantastic! Unbelievable!

But I do believe that based on a number of factors, R3 is fighting for its life and the management/BBC view is that ANY life is better than NO life. Other opinions available.

(also missing a meerschaum pipe smiley)

I switched over to R3 because of the R4 sport / depressing news... So, dear Petroc, please count me out of the aggregated Breakfast listener figures.

Sadly, I think you're right about R3 "fighting for its life", but I'd hope for a better Schwanengesang than this, or is it the Twiglet of the Gods?

[Old Grumpy]

Sadly, I think you're right about R3 "fighting for its life", but I'd hope for a better Schwanengesang than this, or is it the Twiglet of the Gods?

Ah, Twiglets - love 'em or hate 'em!

[kernelbogey]

...the Twiglet of the Gods?

Gõtterpretzeln.