The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

"Terry Wogan reminded us how well he understands radio. "You have to create this little club," he told her. "We're not talking to an audience. You're talking to one person and they're only half-listening. It's a mistake to think that everybody's clinging to your every word."

So I am, alone in the entire world, a listener who is listening to the bits between the music in order to hear something valuable about the music; and am listening, carefully.

All right, so I'm not doing that EVERY SINGLE SECOND. But how does the presenter know when I'm listening carefully and when I've been temporarily distracted by the telephone ringing? Or, why do they decide that those who aren't wanting music contexualisation, who are only half listening, are the ones to address?

The quote above was from Elisabeth Mahoney, the Guardian radio critic, who isn't much of a Radio 3 listener anyway; I'm sure she appreciated Wogan's broadcasting skills. Robert Hanks of the Independent, who is an R3 listener, put it differently:

"While dedicated listeners, the ones who are devoting their whole attention to the radio, will always be a minority it is a minority that most of us belong to at least some of the time; and shouldn't broadcasters be aiming to please that minority rather than cultivating the majority's benevolent indifference?"

[antongould]

......but is the most common "some of the time" we listen "with full attention" breakfast time? I personally think not.

[french frank]

......but is the most common "some of the time" we listen breakfast time? I personally think not.

Personally, being the key word: that's 'you', not 'we'. We're all different. Radio 3 is the last station to say, 'Well, let the mob rule ... if most of them don't want intelligent musical comment in the mornings, let's not bother for the rest of them who do.'

[kernelbogey]

I half agree with your No 1081, FF: what struck me about the Wogan quote was the idea of a little club, and the art of talking to one listener. I agree with Wallace's praise of John Shea. When Sarah MP, Rob et al say things like 'Some of you out there...' or 'Your texts and emails have let me know that you like X' I feel like part of a market rather than the presenter's unique audience.

The best presenters, like John Shea, have a way of presenting useful background information about the piece they're about to play, very often with a sense of personally owning the comment: they demonstrate that they listen to and love music themselves and are enthusiasts for it.

[antongould]

Personally, again, I don't think they are saying that.........

[doversoul1]

I think listening to Radio3 should be like reading a book. Every word matters but the words are all I need. I do not need to ‘connect’ with the author personally or join in the story by lifting flaps or choosing answers. R3 is not that kind of book. The presenters whose names have been mentioned are all excellent ‘authors’ who write/talk about music with carefully selected words. I add Ian Skelly, Penny Gore, and Fiona Tolkington, and in a slightly different colour but just as excellent, Lucy Skeaping and Catherine Bott.

[french frank]

Personally, again, I don't think they are saying that.........

I was judging by what they're doing . Wogan and Radio 2 are/were a different kind of radio and what worked for Wogan worked for his audience too.

kernel - I agree with you about the 'Some of you out there...' or 'Your texts and emails have let me know that you like X' ; its like the 'I'm X - Join me': the broadcasters have changed the balance between presenter and listener. Other things are presenters talking to live audiences and studio guests discussing among themselves (not a bad thing in itself but can be overdone; there are fewer talks where the presenter addresses the listener [sic] directly).

[Stockpicker]

I'm new to the board, and thanks - I've found it immensely therapeutic to find so many like minds here.

Can I add my responses too?

I'm now able to listen to R3 more or less all day at work if I want to. I have to concentrate on what I'm doing, but will admit to tuning back to the presenter when they're explaining a piece that's just caught my ear, and I will always appreciate them doing so. If I'm busy, I won't be listening - it's really nice that they don't seem to mind.

During Breakfast, my time is being measured out in coffee spoons that are a lot less leisured than Eliot's, and it's enormously helpful to have benchmarks to which I can set my schedule - out of shower by the time that news bulletin comes on, on the last lap to work by the time they review the charts (who is this Rieu bloke btw?), way late for work if they're already doing Your Call.

Do I sometimes wish for more of a piece than the single movement played at Breakfast? Absolutely. Have I time for it, or time to put on the CD? You're joking, right? If it's unusual and special, I will make a mental note and find it later. (Do I sometimes get heartily sick of the Four Seasons, Planets, Danse Macabre and Peer Gynt....?)

I believe that on a commercial station (yes, it has to be that - if you don't believe it, let's have a licence fee debate elsewhere) it makes sense for presenters to agree with producers the broad content, which will allow them to cross-market other programmes. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the programmes they're cross-marketing are destination events that are going to be genuinely rewarding. It helps if there is more than one Destination Event per day, however.

Thanks again for providing this forum.

[antongould]

Welcome sir to the boards and to the debate. I tend to use Breakfast much as you do and therefore understand and appreciate its format. Many more do not .........................

[Nick Armstrong]

What is this woman from Newbury doing on R3 talking about having a baby on their sofa on New Year's Day???????



What is this b@ll@cks?

[MickyD]

After abandoning Breakfast for the last few weeks, I gave it a try again this week in the hope that all our comments and the New Year might have brought about some favourable changes. Sadly not, still the same nonsense, phone-in etc. Ah well, back to the CD collection.

[kernelbogey]

During Breakfast, my time is being measured out in coffee spoons that are a lot less leisured than Eliot's, and it's enormously helpful to have benchmarks to which I can set my schedule - out of shower by the time that news bulletin comes on, on the last lap to work by the time they review the charts (who is this Rieu bloke btw?), way late for work if they're already doing Your Call.

Welcome Stockpicker!

I recognise this use of what's being broadcast - news bulletins etc - as a running aural clock, and I guess the suits have designed the format with this in mind.

But I listen less and less to Breakfast - on fewer days, and for very short periods. If what comes on after the news doesn't attract me, or enrages me, off it goes.

I gritted my teeth this morning circa 0750 and listened to the movement from Gorecki 3. SMP's intro about it having been enormously successful as a recording - as I recall, the Symphony, and particularly that movement, was relentlessly plugged by CFM, and I believe they have a commercial interest in the recording - set me thinking about the 'bleeding chunks' metaphor which I and others often use.

I suppose that if your music experience has been predominantly of non-'classical' music, then a track on a CD is just that. The idea of a work consisting of an integrated sequence of movements is foreign to that mindset..

I then thought, well who am I to demand that all three movements of a concerto, all four of a symphony, are played?

I guess my current answer is that I and the newbie coming to R3 from (say) R2 are indeed from different audiences or markets.

Nonetheless I greatly regret that Breakfast, and to some extent the whole of the R3 morning output, has abandoned the gently educative role the station has played for most of my life.

[Osborn]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]What is this woman from Newbury doing on R3 talking about having a baby on their sofa on New Year's Day???????

What's wrong with that? I had a baby on my sofa on Christmas Day as well as on New Year's Day. (the first time it was sick on my knee, the second time it left poo marks)

[kernelbogey]

I'm new to the board[...]who is this Rieu bloke btw?[....]

I believe he may be a composer of the fifth Viennese school and of classics such as Fruehlingskaffeetanz, Marsch zum Badezimmer and the haunting Wo ist mein Autoschluessel?

[Norfolk Born]

You forgot 'Zahllose zuckerhaltige Wiener Bon-Bons'
Forgetting my manners - Welcome, Stockpicker! Any and every view is welcome on any topic, although when it comes to 'Breakfast' I'm with kernelbogey.