The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

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  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37671

    Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
    Should we be lilstening to music during Lent?
    John Cage asks, "Is 'music' music?"

    Comment

    • kernelbogey
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 5745

      Originally posted by smittims View Post
      That quoted response is typical of what I've seen over the years from Government spokesmen, etc. an attempt to settle a matter with a witty soundbite.
      My understanding is that the quoted response from Kate was no broadcast soundbite, but a personal communication with Anton, via Twitter.

      Originally posted by smittims View Post
      So I think it's OK to play a Bach cantata on the Radio 'out of season'. But as with the notorious Government spokesman who appeared not to know what 'mysogyny' was, I think Kate is mistaking Bach's use of his music in other contexts to suggest that he would have welcomed this.
      Surely you would agree that Kate, a professional musicologist, is entitled to her personal opinion on J S Bach?

      And maybe the 'Government spokesman' knew what misogyny is....

      Comment

      • smittims
        Full Member
        • Aug 2022
        • 4141

        Hi, kernelbogey; I dont want to start an argument over what I think was a silly little remark, but perhaps it's worth clarifying what I meant.

        I knew her remark wasn't broadcast ,but it was still, I think, an attempt to settle the matter with a witty soundbite.

        Yes, she's entitled to her opinion; I never suggested she isn't. But she attributes to Bach an opinion about his music which she states as if it were a fact (i.e we don't actually know that Bach actually believed that) . So I stand by my last sentence you quote.

        As for the remark about misogyny, for anyone who missed it it might be worth recalling: he said 'Misogyny is absolutely wrong, whether it's a man against a woman or a woman against a man'. How the feminists came down on him like the wolf upon the fold. So no, I don't think he did know what misogyny is. I think he was confusing it with 'sexism' , just as I thought Kate was confusing Bach's use of some of his cantata music in other works with a stated belief that it's OK to play his cantatas out of season.

        I hope I'm mistaken in sensing a note of irritability oin you post. Do let's try to keep it friendly.

        Comment

        • french frank
          Administrator/Moderator
          • Feb 2007
          • 30281

          Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
          Surely you would agree that Kate, a professional musicologist, is entitled to her personal opinion on J S Bach?
          Aren't we all? From my point of view, a programme which plays 23 pieces in 150 mins doesn't need a musicologist (the problem being 23 'songs' in 150 mins, not presentation by a musicologist). But if this is the continuing story of 'Bach before 8', it might make very good sense to choose the appropriate cantata tune for the right season? But that's just the opinion of a non musicologist
          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

          Comment

          • kernelbogey
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 5745

            Schumann: Julius Caesar overture... haven't heard that before; and no wonder....

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            • cloughie
              Full Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 22119

              Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
              Schumann: Julius Caesar overture... haven't heard that before; and no wonder....
              I chanced upon this in 1970 as the coupling to Solti’s great recording, to my ears at any rate, of Schumann Sym 2 SXL6487

              Comment

              • kernelbogey
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 5745

                It was Solti that they played. I wasn't giving it my full attention but I thought it sounded below Schumann's usual standard of composition (and I am a fan).

                Comment

                • smittims
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2022
                  • 4141

                  I think it's a late work . Schumann's 'usual standard' declined quite a bit in his last years owing to his mental health problems.

                  Comment

                  • cloughie
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 22119

                    Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                    It was Solti that they played. I wasn't giving it my full attention but I thought it sounded below Schumann's usual standard of composition (and I am a fan).
                    Yes - it’s a shadow of Manfred!

                    Comment

                    • kernelbogey
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5745

                      Though weird, today's programme mirroring the music of the countries whose Eurovision Song Contest entrants are finalists tomorrow night in Liverpool has an energy and freshness about it that I have found appealing.

                      Congratulations to producer Susan Kenyon who, according to Petroc, pulled an all-nighter choosing the music once the Saturday finalists were known.

                      I vote for Hieronymos Tragodistēs!
                      Last edited by kernelbogey; 12-05-23, 07:47. Reason: Producer's name added

                      Comment

                      • kernelbogey
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 5745

                        Double Martin next weekend: 20 & 21 May.

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                        • antongould
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 8782

                          Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                          Though weird, today's programme mirroring the music of the countries whose Eurovision Song Contest entrants are finalists tomorrow night in Liverpool has an energy and freshness about it that I have found appealing.

                          Congratulations to producer Susan Kenyon who, according to Petroc, pulled an all-nighter choosing the music once the Saturday finalists were known.

                          I vote for Hieronymos Tragodistēs!
                          Well said IMVVHO kb …… just listened on Sounds ….. well produced and presented

                          Comment

                          • Quarky
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 2658

                            Martin Handley was very good this morning. No quibbles, no temptation to switch off.

                            Comment

                            • antongould
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 8782

                              Originally posted by Quarky View Post
                              Martin Handley was very good this morning. No quibbles, no temptation to switch off.
                              Oh Dear if Sounds is to be believed double Ms Alker this weekend ☹️

                              Comment

                              • Serial_Apologist
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 37671

                                Originally posted by antongould View Post
                                Oh Dear if Sounds is to be believed double Ms Alker this weekend ☹️
                                Alker's hell sir.

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