The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[oddoneout]

I'm saying nowt!

So I tried Radio 3 breakfast. Petroc is such a pedant, just play the bloody music and spare us the wealth of knowledge you insist in sharing and please, no more Florence Price.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/20/the-radio-was-the-soundtrack-to-my-life-but-i-turned-it-off-a-week-ago-and-may-never-turn-it-back-on

[smittims]

If Florence Price's music had been written by a Caucasian man it wouldn't be broasdcast. in my opinion. It would be thought not good enough, so clearly other criteria apply.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm saying nowt!

“So I tried Radio 3 breakfast. Petroc is such a pedant, just play the bloody music and spare us the wealth of knowledge you insist in sharing and please, no more Florence Price”

I can’t find where your quote came from, ooo, but I agree on both counts - I’m glad I’m not alone re Florence P (having made a similar point about her on another thread a couple of days ago):

I’m afraid the composer to whom altogether too much obeisance has lately been paid is Florence Price - for me, her music is far from the set of masterpieces some seem to suggest.

[Serial_Apologist]

I thought her music was OK, just unexceptional. I wouldn't put her higher or lower than Gershwin in the field of concert music. The fact that Gershwin has been celebrated and Price not was a matter of both gender and race, I am sure, and publicisers are now trying to do something to make amends and redress that. There are bound to be pleasant surprises and disappointments to be found in the unearthing process.

[oddoneout]

I thought her music was OK, just unexceptional. I wouldn't put her higher or lower than Gershwin in the field of concert music. The fact that Gershwin has been celebrated and Price not was a matter of both gender and race, I am sure, and publicisers are now trying to do something to make amends and redress that. There are bound to be pleasant surprises and disappointments to be found in the unearthing process.

Which is pretty much my view. Get the (lesser known for whatever reason) stuff out there and then let listeners/performers etc decide for themselves, otherwise isn't there a risk of repeating the original mistakes and also possibly missing something of worth?
"Lesser" music, as some might class it, which brings pleasure has its part to play. The output of "great" composers hasn't always been consistently good, and even if it were, being classed as good is no guarantee that the listener will like it. I am told Bruckner was a great composer who wrote great symphonies, but I can't stand them.

[oddoneout]

I can’t find where your quote came from, ooo, but I agree on both counts - I’m glad I’m not alone re Florence P (having made a similar point about her on another thread a couple of days ago):

Apologies Nick, I should have said it was BTL, not from the article itself.

[Nick Armstrong]

Apologies Nick, I should have said it was BTL, not from the article itself.

Now you’ve foxed me with “BTL”

(Acronyms are a personal blind-spot…)

[Ein Heldenleben]

I thought her music was OK, just unexceptional. I wouldn't put her higher or lower than Gershwin in the field of concert music. The fact that Gershwin has been celebrated and Price not was a matter of both gender and race, I am sure, and publicisers are now trying to do something to make amends and redress that. There are bound to be pleasant surprises and disappointments to be found in the unearthing process.

Not sure I would agree with that. I also think you are comparing composers from widely different genres. Gershwin was one of the greatest popular songwriters of the twentieth century producing a string of hits that will be played from now until judgement day. He tried his hand at “legit” concert pieces : Rhapsody In Blue , The Piano Concerti, An American in Paris. With their captivating tunes they’ve established themselves in the repertoire but no one is pretending they are anything more than earpleasers or seriously comparing them the Mozart Piano Concerti for example..
Florence Price was trying to establish herself in the US Classical symphonic music world - difficult enough for any one - but well nigh impossible for some one of her heritage at the time. Only a tiny percentage of music written finds a permanent place . Composers that were once staples of the concert hall and opera house are now more or less completely forgotten. Whether time is the best judge is open to question. Styles go in and out of fashion . Much of her music was very much like a Dvorak inspired reshaping of traditional African -American spirituals. That went out of fashion( in the classical concert hall that is ) in the fifties and sixties and seventies and is now , perhaps for various extra -musical reasons , back in fashion. It doesn’t help her to pretend her work is full of masterpieces but then neither are many of the works that make up large swathes of radio output. Compared to a lot of contemporary US and UK popular music she is Beethoven (but then so is Gershwin)

[oddoneout]

Now you’ve foxed me with “BTL”

(Acronyms are a personal blind-spot…)

Below the line , ie comments section. It's sad reflection I suppose of the time I now spend reading such things that I can now use it without making the BLT mistake...

[Nick Armstrong]

Below the line , ie comments section. It's sad reflection I suppose of the time I now spend reading such things that I can now use it without making the BLT mistake...

Gosh, I never venture BTL … (though I’m partial to a nice BLT once in a while)

I skimmed through the comments to this article though, and still couldn’t find the quote. Mind you, the only comment I noticed referring to Petroc T had previously elicited a reply which has been deleted by the Guardian mods. Perhaps the Florence Price Appreciation Society had marched up York Way brandishing pitchforks and torches.

[oddoneout]

Gosh, I never venture BTL … (though I’m partial to a nice BLT once in a while)

I skimmed through the comments to this article though, and still couldn’t find the quote. Mind you, the only comment I noticed referring to Petroc T had previously elicited a reply which has been deleted by the Guardian mods. Perhaps the Florence Price Appreciation Society had marched up York Way brandishing pitchforks and torches.

I've just done a skim and the group of comments (which I think might have included another reference to Florence Price) from which I took the quote has been removed in its entirety, which does make one wonder...

[Serial_Apologist]

Not sure I would agree with that. I also think you are comparing composers from widely different genres. Gershwin was one of the greatest popular songwriters of the twentieth century producing a string of hits that will be played from now until judgement day. He tried his hand at “legit” concert pieces : Rhapsody In Blue , The Piano Concerti, An American in Paris. With their captivating tunes they’ve established themselves in the repertoire but no one is pretending they are anything more than earpleasers or seriously comparing them the Mozart Piano Concerti for example..
Florence Price was trying to establish herself in the US Classical symphonic music world - difficult enough for any one - but well nigh impossible for some one of her heritage at the time. Only a tiny percentage of music written finds a permanent place . Composers that were once staples of the concert hall and opera house are now more or less completely forgotten. Whether time is the best judge is open to question. Styles go in and out of fashion . Much of her music was very much like a Dvorak inspired reshaping of traditional African -American spirituals. That went out of fashion( in the classical concert hall that is ) in the fifties and sixties and seventies and is now , perhaps for various extra -musical reasons , back in fashion. It doesn’t help her to pretend her work is full of masterpieces but then neither are many of the works that make up large swathes of radio output. Compared to a lot of contemporary US and UK popular music she is Beethoven (but then so is Gershwin)

I don't think we're in disagreement.

[kernelbogey]

A weird bit of dead air this morning between two items with a panicky-sounding Martin saying 'It's all gone!' Are you there?' It cheered me up a bit: funniest moment on R3 in a long while. He's away for two weeks conducting Gilbert and Sullivan so it will be La Alker for the next two Sundays.

[oddoneout]

A weird bit of dead air this morning between two items with a panicky-sounding Martin saying 'It's all gone!' Are you there?' It cheered me up a bit: funniest moment on R3 in a long while. He's away for two weeks conducting Gilbert and Sullivan so it will be La Alker for the next two Sundays.

Poor chap. My attention was somewhat elsewhere at that point so I didn't realise straightaway that the gap and the forlorn "Are you there" weren't part of the sequence...
The next two Sundays will not be such a restful start to the day I suspect.

[Nick Armstrong]

He's away for two weeks conducting Gilbert and Sullivan so it will be La Alker for the next two Sundays.

I feared we’d have to pay the price for two double-Handley weekends earlier this summer