Originally posted by gurnemanz
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The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place
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Originally posted by cloughie View PostWhen the pop world had R1 2 and 6 to go at why do we have to have so much dumped on R3? I particular why is Lizzie’s disconnected, disjointed, generally unpleasant music not on 6, rather than 3, always so unsubtly plugged on her Saturday Weekend Breakfast programme? Much of the late evening R3 agenda would be more appropriately be on R6!
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Originally posted by cloughie View PostWhen the pop world had R1 2 and 6 to go at why do we have to have so much dumped on R3? I particular why is Lizzie’s disconnected, disjointed, generally unpleasant music not on 6, rather than 3, always so unsubtly plugged on her Saturday Weekend Breakfast programme? Much of the late evening R3 agenda would be more appropriately be on R6!
The BBC doesn't care much, and R3 just wants MORE LISTENERS. They don't have to be listening to classical music (or jazz or world music). The strategy turns off classical music listeners but doesn't develop a new audience for it either. The 'broad (= more 'diverse') audience' comes to R3 for the broad range of music.
"Things can only get better" - or worse, depending on what you want to listen to.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostBecause 6Music is now doing very well for audience. The R3 strategy is to persuade 6Music fans to listen to R3 - and no one has bothered to explain why 6Music fans would prefer to listen to R3 than 6Music. But 'celebrity presenters' (aka 'talent') are considered the pull: EA fans will follow her over to R3, even if R3 listeners run away.
The BBC doesn't care much, and R3 just wants MORE LISTENERS. They don't have to be listening to classical music (or jazz or world music). The strategy turns off classical music listeners but doesn't develop a new audience for it either. The 'broad (= more 'diverse') audience' comes to R3 for the broad range of music.
"Things can only get better" - or worse, depending on what you want to listen to.
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Originally posted by cloughie View PostWORSE for sure! Why do we bother Fawlty?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostFrom yesterday, I was picking throught the playlist (usual mix of Nielsen, Juliette Greco, Fauré, Jacques Brel &c) and thought I'd check on the music of Carmel Smickersgill - a name not familiar to me. I was intrigued to find her piece Leaving on YouTube, and even more intrigued to find her record company describing her as an "Emerging modern classical/outsider pop artist". I wonder what the word "classical" is supposed to mean? No longer is all music just "music" but anything can be described as "classical". In other words, the word means nothing at all. Is that a good thing?
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Originally posted by french frank View PostI wonder what the word "classical" is supposed to mean? No longer is all music just "music" but anything can be described as "classical". In other words, the word means nothing at all. Is that a good thing?
If the music includes (say) drum and bass then it's not classical, it's rock or pop or jazz.... If it doesn't then maybe it's 'classical'.
Something about key & key changes, rhythm, subject matter (if there are words)...?
Or maybe just where you put this in the shop/website.
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Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post'When I use a word... it means just what I choose it to mean....'
If the music includes (say) drum and bass then it's not classical, it's rock or pop or jazz.... If it doesn't then maybe it's 'classical'.
Something about key & key changes, rhythm, subject matter (if there are words)...?
Or maybe just where you put this in the shop/website.
It’s more to do with classical “forms “ - the symphony, sonata form , opera, art song etc. Problem is these forms have broken down and absorbed music from other traditions - look at some of Tippett’s symphonies. Is Gershwin’s An American In Paris a classical piece ? Yes but it doesn’t feel “classical” in the same way a Haydn symphony does. It’s a sequence of Broadway / jazz tunes with little of the organised tonal structure of Haydn . Does that mean it’s not classical ? Possibly . Does it matter ?
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Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View PostThing is there are plenty of classical pieces that have a drum and bass .
It’s more to do with classical “forms “ - the symphony, sonata form , opera, art song etc. Problem is these forms have broken down and absorbed music from other traditions - look at some of Tippett’s symphonies. Is Gershwin’s An American In Paris a classical piece ? Yes but it doesn’t feel “classical” in the same way a Haydn symphony does. It’s a sequence of Broadway / jazz tunes with little of the organised tonal structure of Haydn . Does that mean it’s not classical ? Possibly . Does it matter ?
It’s more to do with classical “forms “ - the symphony, sonata form , opera, art song etc. Problem is these forms have broken down and absorbed music from other traditions
PS I think the modern form is 'drum 'n' bass' and I can't think of an indisputably classical work that includes that.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostPS I think the modern form is 'drum 'n' bass' and I can't think of an indisputably classical work that includes that.
I agree with Frenchie's definition(s) of 'classical' in, as it were, an academic sense; but people whose main tastes lie elsewhere seem to use the term in a much more indiscriminate way. I have rarely listened to Night Tracks et al but I'd guess some of that music would by some be called classical.
For a time a few years back I tried saying 'I mostly listen to serious music', but of course that didn't work, largely because it sounds patronising (which was not my intention): I was merely trying to define my taste as being largely outside pop, rock, jazz et al.
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Originally posted by gurnemanz View PostThis outrage was my morning greeting from R3 as I woke up and switched on my bedside radio. I immediately changed input to a streamed internet station.
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Originally posted by Hanners View PostIf that trail gets anyone to listen to the concert who wouldn’t otherwise have done so, and then maybe introduces them to Bruckner, then surely it will have done the job it’s meant to do…
But the BBC has said before now that if people are annoyed by programme trails it means they have noticed them and therefore the trail 'will have done the job it’s meant to do… 'It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by Hanners View PostThis was a so-called ‘Written Trail’ when we build script round a musical or verbal clip. The music duration was probably something like 50” - as it would be in a ‘built’ trail where the whole package is prerecorded. So the clip of Bruckner 9 was no different to the musical background in any ‘built’ trail. It’s not a ‘new’ low however you view it. To me it seems a bit extreme to change channels because of a brief trail. If that trail gets anyone to listen to the concert who wouldn’t otherwise have done so, and then maybe introduces them to Bruckner, then surely it will have done the job it’s meant to do…
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