The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

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  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
    James Weeks: Durham - some uncomplimentary remarks about this reported by Martin this morning. From the little I heard of it I can't disagree with 'paucity of wit and creativity'.
    James has responded:

    James Weeks is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with James Weeks and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected.

    Comment

    • kernelbogey
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 5735

      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
      Bryn, I would like to read what he said, but I don't do fb. Any chance of your cutting & pasting here?

      Comment

      • Bryn
        Banned
        • Mar 2007
        • 24688

        Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
        Bryn, I would like to read what he said, but I don't do fb. Any chance of your cutting & pasting here?
        Without seeking permission:

        Woohoo! Handbags at Breakfast on Radio 3 over my piano piece 'Durham'. One irate listener wrote in to denounce its 'paucity of wit and creativity, an insult to your listeners and to Durham.' I have to say this is a proud moment: massive thanks to Martin Handley for playing it on his show, and to Siwan Rhys for recording it so beautifully on my new album Summer, which you simply must now get in order to feel similarly infuriated. Please do write in.

        Comment

        • kernelbogey
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 5735

          Thanks, Bryn.

          Having since listened to the piece in its entirety, I found it hasn't grown on me.

          I think the person who texted the Breakfast programme 'anonymously' should have identified him/herself; and perhaps I shouldn't have quoted that rather spiteful phrase.

          However simplicity isn't always rewarding IMV. I remember my brother, many years ago, saying that Spohr's Octet (I think he was referring to the last movement) was 'empty headed'; I think I had a similar response this morning.

          (I'l get my handbag.)

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30235

            Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
            I think the person who texted the Breakfast programme 'anonymously' should have identified him/herself; and perhaps I shouldn't have quoted that rather spiteful phrase.
            A definite downside to the internet is that it's apparently now generally thought an advantage for Mr Everyman to have his say on everything (all right so far) and have his wise words broadcast to the wide general public. More shameful to me (just my opinion, you understand ) is that i don't believe for one minute it's done to initiate genuine debate, but just to add some spice to the programme and an aspect of a station that's become 80% naff light entertainment. Far better to broadcast it in the context of discussion with professional critics who at least have the discrimination to comment critically

            Artists of all sorts have to live with this now; I don't think anyone's better off for it.

            NB I think this forum is all right, as comments here gain little prominence ; but brutal people will always say brutal things: I hope they're disliked for it

            As they say on Twitter (I think), "All opinions my own."
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

            Comment

            • vinteuil
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12782

              Originally posted by french frank View Post
              ; but brutal people will always say brutal things: I hope they're disliked for it
              ... yeah - but snarky is kinda fun, I find.

              I enjoy snarky critics and writers

              .

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30235

                Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                ... yeah - but snarky is kinda fun, I find.

                I enjoy snarky critics and writers

                .
                There's witty snarky and brutal snarky.
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • antongould
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 8778

                  Originally posted by french frank View Post
                  A definite downside to the internet is that it's apparently now generally thought an advantage for Mr Everyman to have his say on everything (all right so far) and have his wise words broadcast to the wide general public. More shameful to me (just my opinion, you understand ) is that i don't believe for one minute it's done to initiate genuine debate, but just to add some spice to the programme and an aspect of a station that's become 80% naff light entertainment. Far better to broadcast it in the context of discussion with professional critics who at least have the discrimination to comment critically

                  Artists of all sorts have to live with this now; I don't think anyone's better off for it.

                  NB I think this forum is all right, as comments here gain little prominence ; but brutal people will always say brutal things: I hope they're disliked for it

                  As they say on Twitter (I think), "All opinions my own."
                  80% ……… ?????? this bit of your own I don’t get …….

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30235

                    Originally posted by antongould View Post
                    80% ……… ?????? this bit of your own I don’t get …….
                    The percentage is variable, depending on how much of the output matches the taste of the individual
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • oddoneout
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2015
                      • 9141

                      Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                      Thanks, Bryn.

                      Having since listened to the piece in its entirety, I found it hasn't grown on me.

                      I think the person who texted the Breakfast programme 'anonymously' should have identified him/herself; and perhaps I shouldn't have quoted that rather spiteful phrase.

                      However simplicity isn't always rewarding IMV. I remember my brother, many years ago, saying that Spohr's Octet (I think he was referring to the last movement) was 'empty headed'; I think I had a similar response this morning.

                      (I'l get my handbag.)
                      If asked I would say my impression is that generally the listeners who contact the programme aren't afraid to be named even if they voice adverse criticism, and I find some amusement on occasion, when they give their (sometimes quite irate) opinion, at their conviction that all fellow listeners will agree.

                      Comment

                      • Ein Heldenleben
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 6740

                        Originally posted by french frank View Post
                        A definite downside to the internet is that it's apparently now generally thought an advantage for Mr Everyman to have his say on everything (all right so far) and have his wise words broadcast to the wide general public. More shameful to me (just my opinion, you understand ) is that i don't believe for one minute it's done to initiate genuine debate, but just to add some spice to the programme and an aspect of a station that's become 80% naff light entertainment. Far better to broadcast it in the context of discussion with professional critics who at least have the discrimination to comment critically


                        Artists of all sorts have to live with this now; I don't think anyone's better off for it.

                        NB I think this forum is all right, as comments here gain little prominence ; but brutal people will always say brutal things: I hope they're disliked for it

                        As they say on Twitter (I think), "All opinions my own."
                        Is it hypocritical to anonymously criticise those who post anonymous criticism on the internet? And if I criticise them am I guilty of some mind of meta-hypocrisy ?

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30235

                          Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                          Is it hypocritical to anonymously criticise those who post anonymous criticism on the internet? And if I criticise them am I guilty of some mind of meta-hypocrisy ?
                          ??? I can't say;: it's more a matter of the terms in which one offers one's remarks (anonymous or not). I didn't criticise (anonymously) the anonymous critic, but more lamented the fact that these platforms which reach large audiences can be used as loudspeakers to 'broadcast' casual thoughts under the guise of 'criticism'. Radio 3 chooses to air such comments, not - in my view to add to critical debate - but to spice up the programme. I'm not into 'shock jocks' either but people do find them entertaining.

                          I hope I haven't missed your point!

                          "Well never mind what she thinks what do YOU reckon?"Copyright BBC. I will remove this video clip if requested.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 6740

                            Originally posted by french frank View Post
                            ??? I can't say;: it's more a matter of the terms in which one offers one's remarks (anonymous or not). I didn't criticise (anonymously) the anonymous critic, but more lamented the fact that these platforms which reach large audiences can be used as loudspeakers to 'broadcast' casual thoughts under the guise of 'criticism'. Radio 3 chooses to air such comments, not - in my view to add to critical debate - but to spice up the programme. I'm not into 'shock jocks' either but people do find them entertaining.

                            I hope I haven't missed your point!

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnd5ilKx2Y
                            Not at all I was being facetious . A bald two sentence criticism of any work of art is bound to sound superficial . The problem is the broadcasters don’t have time to air a more lengthy considered piece. The real problem is not criticism but that everything is either “brilliant” or “fantastic” which in its own way as reductive as a short brutal put-down and of no use to the creative artist.

                            Comment

                            • LMcD
                              Full Member
                              • Sep 2017
                              • 8402

                              Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                              Not at all I was being facetious . A bald two sentence criticism of any work of art is bound to sound superficial . The problem is the broadcasters don’t have time to air a more lengthy considered piece. The real problem is not criticism but that everything is either “brilliant” or “fantastic” which in its own way as reductive as a short brutal put-down and of no use to the creative artist.
                              Could 'modified rapture' not perhaps be permitted in any brief comment on a piece by Gilbert and Sullivan?

                              Comment

                              • Ein Heldenleben
                                Full Member
                                • Apr 2014
                                • 6740

                                Originally posted by LMcD View Post
                                Could 'modified rapture' not perhaps be permitted in any brief comment on a piece by Gilbert and Sullivan?
                                You are asking the wrong person as they are a bit of a blind spot...Slightly irritating tedium comes a bit closer.
                                Sorry....

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