The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[antongould]

He's (IS that is not Anton) been very much in evidence in the afternoon slot and I couldn't help thinking that was deliberate of the Beeb -"Look we're not getting rid of him" deflection tactic.

I would agree odders .....

[Serial_Apologist]

A propos of Sounds Of the Earth does any one agree that mixing natural sounds e,g, birdsong and classical music doesn’t really work? To be the beauties of one fight against the beauties of the other . The audio recording of the cellist and the nightingale constantly rolled out on Radio 3 is one of my least favourite radio cliches . Partly because the cello playing has some poor intonation. On a bigger scale the Rautavarra works are very interesting - once ...There is wonderful blackbird that wakes me up every morning at the moment in the front garden. It is quite pleasant when aleatorically he joins in with Radio 3 but having it mixed together by an engineer is to my ears unnaturally premeditated.

Don't you ever pine for Rome?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Don't you ever pine for Rome?

I'm surprised that HIPP fanatics don't insist that a scratchy, pre-electric recording of a nightingale is used in The Pines of Rome. After all, "that's what the composer expected".

[hmvman]

I'm surprised that HIPP fanatics don't insist that a scratchy, pre-electric recording of a nightingale is used in The Pines of Rome. After all, "that's what the composer expected".

I believe he was very specific about which record to use.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Don't you ever pine for Rome?

Don’t mind that one so much . Bit ambivalent about Resphigi - I sort of like his stuff but think I shouldn’t ....

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm surprised that HIPP fanatics don't insist that a scratchy, pre-electric recording of a nightingale is used in The Pines of Rome. After all, "that's what the composer expected".

We're in danger of getting into "wouldn't Beethoven have composed for a modern Bechstein?" territory!

[Serial_Apologist]

Don’t mind that one so much . Bit ambivalent about Resphigi - I sort of like his stuff but think I shouldn’t ....

Respighi was a fine composer, comparable in many ways to Bax: similar style and mix of influences - Wagner, Strauss, Mahler, Debussy, Petrushka-era Stravinsky.

[seabright]

I believe he was very specific about which record to use.

Indeed he was. The score states: "No. R. 6105 del 'Concert Record' Gramophone: Il canto dell'usignolo" ... Of course, that wasn't the recording we heard on Sunday in the Stokowski performance to mark his birthday on 18th April 1882 and Respighi's death day on 18th April 1936. You can however hear it on YouTube in the 1928 Columbia 78rpm recording made by Lorenzo Molajoli and the Milan Symphony Orchestra. The nightingale comes in just after the 12-minute mark ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt90J4KrGcI

Curiously, at exactly the same time that Molajoli was recording the work for Columbia, Ettore Panizza and the Orchestra della Scala di Milano were recording a rival version for Odeon. Unfortunately that isn't on YouTube (yet!) but we must assume they too used the same nightingale 78.

It's also curious that although Bernardino Molinari had given the work its premiere in 1924, it wasn't performed at the Proms until 1986. Happily that is also on YouTube, with Edward Downes and the BBC Philharmonic bringing the house down with Respighi's depiction of ancient Roman legions marching up the Appian way, the bass drum thwacks and the organ pedals at the end causing the Prommers to erupt into a state of extreme excitement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DqhFqoXD_U

And we still haven't heard the equally spectacular "Church Windows" at the Proms. I wonder if we ever will.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I believe he was very specific about which record to use.

There’s a recording on YouTube that claims to be the original one that Respighi used. I suspect it’s a fake, as the frequency response is so good and the background noise is negligible.

[cloughie]

There’s a recording on YouTube that claims to be the original one that Respighi used. I suspect it’s a fake, as the frequency response is so good and the background noise is negligible.

The Respighi Berkeley Square Hoax?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Indeed he was. The score states: "No. R. 6105 del 'Concert Record' Gramophone: Il canto dell'usignolo" ... Of course, that wasn't the recording we heard on Sunday in the Stokowski performance to mark his birthday on 18th April 1882 and Respighi's death day on 18th April 1936. You can however hear it on YouTube in the 1928 Columbia 78rpm recording made by Lorenzo Molajoli and the Milan Symphony Orchestra. The nightingale comes in just after the 12-minute mark ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt90J4KrGcI

Curiously, at exactly the same time that Molajoli was recording the work for Columbia, Ettore Panizza and the Orchestra della Scala di Milano were recording a rival version for Odeon. Unfortunately that isn't on YouTube (yet!) but we must assume they too used the same nightingale 78.

It's also curious that although Bernardino Molinari had given the work its premiere in 1924, it wasn't performed at the Proms until 1986. Happily that is also on YouTube, with Edward Downes and the BBC Philharmonic bringing the house down with Respighi's depiction of ancient Roman legions marching up the Appian way, the bass drum thwacks and the organ pedals at the end causing the Prommers to erupt into a state of extreme excitement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DqhFqoXD_U

And we still haven't heard the equally spectacular "Church Windows" at the Proms. I wonder if we ever will.

Danger of going off thread here but I wonder if he was linked , probably unfairly , with Mussolini in the public and concert promoters minds. His music was against trend and also , in some cases expensive to perform . A nightingale record is cheap but doesn’t the score also need some rare offstage horns ?

[hmvman]

Indeed he was. The score states: "No. R. 6105 del 'Concert Record' Gramophone: Il canto dell'usignolo" ... Of course, that wasn't the recording we heard on Sunday in the Stokowski performance to mark his birthday on 18th April 1882 and Respighi's death day on 18th April 1936. You can however hear it on YouTube in the 1928 Columbia 78rpm recording made by Lorenzo Molajoli and the Milan Symphony Orchestra. The nightingale comes in just after the 12-minute mark ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt90J4KrGcI

Curiously, at exactly the same time that Molajoli was recording the work for Columbia, Ettore Panizza and the Orchestra della Scala di Milano were recording a rival version for Odeon. Unfortunately that isn't on YouTube (yet!) but we must assume they too used the same nightingale 78.

It's also curious that although Bernardino Molinari had given the work its premiere in 1924, it wasn't performed at the Proms until 1986. Happily that is also on YouTube, with Edward Downes and the BBC Philharmonic bringing the house down with Respighi's depiction of ancient Roman legions marching up the Appian way, the bass drum thwacks and the organ pedals at the end causing the Prommers to erupt into a state of extreme excitement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DqhFqoXD_U

And we still haven't heard the equally spectacular "Church Windows" at the Proms. I wonder if we ever will.

Thanks for all that info, seabright, I shall check out those YouTube links. As I understand it, the scoring for harp and strings in the Nightingale section was to mask the surface noise of the gramophone record (which may address Eine Alpensinfonie's point). I've also read that at the first performance the gramophone was concealed behind a heavy curtain which would also have attenuated record surface noise.

That's incredible that 'Pines' wasn't performed at the Proms until so comparatively recently. A few years ago I was at a Proms performance of 'Roman Festivals' conducted by John Adams.

[seabright]

There’s a recording on YouTube that claims to be the original one that Respighi used. I suspect it’s a fake, as the frequency response is so good and the background noise is negligible.

You are quite right to suspect fakery! ... I just googled the Catalogue No. quoted in the Respighi score and was immediately taken to a website that lists historical recordings. This one was recorded by one Karl Reich in May 1913 and issued in Italy on the 'Gramophone' label. There's no way that an ancient pre-electric acoustically recorded 78, with the bird chirping into a giant wooden horn, could possibly sound like the version claimed to be the "original" on YouTube. On the other hand, when the uploader says it's a "copy" of the original recording, I wonder if he means that literally. It's an 8-minute video of a nightingale and I'm beginning to suspect he means it's for general use whenever someone performs the work and needs a handy nightingale to play in the hall. His words that it's a "service to all artists performing this piece" does rather suggest this. Nevertheless, his comment about it being a "copy" of the original is misleading, as some of the comments under the soon show.

[Serial_Apologist]

The Respighi Berkeley Square Hoax?

"Ain't there some bird sang about that place?" - Count Basie to a late friend of mine!

[cloughie]

"Ain't there some bird sang about that place?" - Count Basie to a late friend of mine!

Wasn’t he in Paris that same April?