The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[LMcD]

I can't speak about Saturday Breakfast as I never listen to it.

Monday to Friday, Petroc runs an amiable show. It's streets ahead of the far-off days when it was loaded with tweets. Something has softened and for me there is a sense of a Breakfast community of listeners.

Far out ahead, for me, is Sunday Breakfast with Martin Handley. He has one of the best presenter-personas on Radio Three, and is above all a musician.

Agreed!

[Old Grumpy]

Oh I abandon ship before he comes on, and generally the radio stays off for the rest of the day. Saturday is a day when I find alternatives to listening or watching; the choice has been somewhat limited the past few weeks...

Yes. Sounds of Cinema (much as I like Matthew Sweet as a broadcaster) and Opera on Three primarily.

J to Z and Music Planet, however


OG

[cloughie]

Singalong Friday - do your Nessun Dorma - Aretha Franklin this morning - You can take the girl out of the gospel choir but not the gospel choir out of the girl! ...but I’ll test the voice on Friday morning.

[LMcD]

Many years ago, Tony Blackburn played the same record 8 times in a row in a crude attempt to generate response from listeners. Presumably somebody had the same idea when scheduling Arethra Franklin's 'rendition' of 'Nessun Dorma', which made me realize how seriously we'd underestimated the vocal skills of Florence Foster Jenkins.
Right notes matter!

[oddoneout]

Many years ago, Tony Blackburn played the same record 8 times in a row in a crude attempt to generate response from listeners. Presumably somebody had the same idea when scheduling Arethra Franklin's 'rendition' of 'Nessun Dorma', which made me realize how seriously we'd underestimated the vocal skills of Florence Foster Jenkins.
Right notes matter!

I actually rather enjoyed this. I'm not very keen on gospel and related styles of singing but liked the fact that the key/important notes were present and more importantly correct; fixed points around which to move. It wasn't Pavarotti, for whom she apparently stepped in, but that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned...

[Count Boso]

I actually rather enjoyed this. I'm not very keen on gospel and related styles of singing but liked the fact that the key/important notes were present and more importantly correct; fixed points around which to move. It wasn't Pavarotti, for whom she apparently stepped in, but that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned...

How it strikes you, I suppose. You can hear a 10-second clip on the Breakfast page. Are you saying this was like "gospel and related styles of singing"? It was quite soulful but not quite soul music. There are two sorts of crossover, non-classical performers who perform classical pieces, and classical performers who perform non-classical. In most cases I feel it would be better if both left well alone, but if you appreciate novelty I wouldn't want to deprive you. The 10 seconds was enough for me.

[cloughie]

I actually rather enjoyed this. I'm not very keen on gospel and related styles of singing but liked the fact that the key/important notes were present and more importantly correct; fixed points around which to move. It wasn't Pavarotti, for whom she apparently stepped in, but that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned...

Yes I think most of the notes were right but a few added! Pop singers can do classical - Classical Barbra is my favourite example - but the voice is great anyway!

[LMcD]

Yes I think most of the notes were right but a few added! Pop singers can do classical - Classical Barbra is my favourite example - but the voice is great anyway!

As long as the added notes were in the right place and order ...
I'm having problems finding Pavarotti's take on 'Respect'.

[Count Boso]

Pop singers can do classical - Classical Barbra is my favourite example - but the voice is great anyway!

Anyone can do classical (even me - badly), but if pop singers do it as pop singers, it's just a question of taste whether you like that style. You may well do if you like the singer anyway. I have a feeling that Classical Barbra is for those who like Barbra, and Nessun dorma by Aretha Franklin is for people who like Aretha Franklin. For those who like classical music and think they don't like Barbra or Aretha, it may well be a way into developing a liking. Or it may not.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anyone can do classical (even me - badly), but if pop singers do it as pop singers, it's just a question of taste whether you like that style. You may well do if you like the singer anyway. I have a feeling that Classical Barbra is for those who like Barbra, and Nessun dorma by Aretha Franklin is for people who like Aretha Franklin. For those who like classical music and think they don't like Barbra or Aretha, it may well be a way into developing a liking. Or it may not.

I guess for me classical opera or oratorio-type singing - which, I understand, is not automatically what classifies as "bel canto" - is something I get used to every time I return to it from jazz and jazz-type singing - rather as one got used to platform shoes and flares in the 1970s - but it still tends to steer my classical listening away from song recitals too, and restrict me to orchestral and non-vocal chamber musics. The vibrato-rich way of singing - denounced my a few on this forum as having increased to wobbly overload in many cases on recent evidence - always seems particularly inappropriate in modernist works: for it completely ruins a lot of Henze for example, along with his one-time pupil Turnage, though I suppose there are those who feel it entirely appropriate to their own appropriations of most of the conventions with regards to opera.

[cloughie]

Anyone can do classical (even me - badly), but if pop singers do it as pop singers, it's just a question of taste whether you like that style. You may well do if you like the singer anyway. I have a feeling that Classical Barbra is for those who like Barbra, and Nessun dorma by Aretha Franklin is for people who like Aretha Franklin. For those who like classical music and think they don't like Barbra or Aretha, it may well be a way into developing a liking. Or it may not.

And let’s face it those who like opera don’t like every opera singer - there is a definite marmite factor there eg Callas! Also not all voices suit all repertoire. Dramatic opera singers often do a great disservice to songs requiring a subtler touch. Back to the pop side, I like Aretha Franklin but her output post c1975 does little for me. Rightly or wrongly I put this down to bad management that seems rife in the music industry where money for others takes precedence over the musical development of the singer. I like Streisand in most things - as a singer of ‘Standards’ there are few better, but recently has been wrongly advised to modernise by doing unsuitable duets and adopting a bad modern style of singing. Lady Gaga has made some very good recordings of good songs eg with Tony Bennett but Her regular output is to my ears poor.

[Ein Heldenleben]

And let’s face it those who like opera don’t like every opera singer - there is a definite marmite factor there eg Callas! Also not all voices suit all repertoire. Dramatic opera singers often do a great disservice to songs requiring a subtler touch. Back to the pop side, I like Aretha Franklin but her output post c1975 does little for me. Rightly or wrongly I put this down to bad management that seems rife in the music industry where money for others takes precedence over the musical development of the singer. I like Streisand in most things - as a singer of ‘Standards’ there are few better, but recently has been wrongly advised to modernise by doing unsuitable duets and adopting a bad modern style of singing. Lady Gaga has made some very good recordings of good songs eg with Tony Bennett but Her regular output is to my ears poor.

You are right. I think the problem that mega talents like Aretha and Barbra have is that they hit a sweet spot where the music that most suits their voice is at a peak and then moves on . For Barbra the high point was perhaps Funny Girl but then Jules Styne left the scene. For Frank Sinatra it was the mix of The Great American Songbook and Nelson Riddle . But his Beatles covers don't work for me. He was a bit of a lost soul until the late period miracle of New York, New York..

[Serial_Apologist]

You are right. I think the problem that mega talents like Aretha and Barbra have is that they hit a sweet spot where the music that most suits their voice is at a peak and then moves on . For Barbra the high point was perhaps Funny Girl but then Jules Styne left the scene. For Frank Sinatra it was the mix of The Great American Songbook and Nelson Riddle . But his Beatles covers don't work for me. He was a bit of a lost soul until the late period miracle of New York, New York..

Macca once said Sinatra's interpretation of George Harrison's "Something" marked for them all the final sinecure of approval on Beatles compositions, even though it was George's first ever for the group!

[cloughie]

Well I hope you all seized the chance to singalong a Luciano in readiness for tomorrow morning!

[LezLee]

A 'crossover' album I really like is Anne Sofie von Otter/Elvis Costello 'For The Stars'