The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Breakxit?

[DracoM]

Yes - I really should invest in a radio or three which can access the Internet. Until then, I'll stick with the CDs - whilst MH was letting everyone know about his pest infestation, I was listening to Schnabel playing Op 101.

Believe me, getting a radio that can reach these stations is increasingly a balm to the hurt mind.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The "debate" may well be "eternal", and there will always be some (maybe "many") listeners who will respond that they "like" the format as it is now. Which rather stops the "debate" and turns it into a simplistic "I like it"/"I don't" exchange of preferences. The point of the debate, fo me, is that, between 6:00am and Noon, there is now no public-service broadcasting station that caters for those Licence-Fee payers who need substantial works introduced with the minimum of presenter-input; not one. The "presenter-led" "informal chat" format is now how Musics from the Western Classical Traditions are broadcast on all three national stations whose chief focus is that/those repertoire (or, at least, a very limited selection from that/those repertoires): R3, ClassicFM, and SagaFM (the new one). That is the principal focus for me, and, I would have thought, should be for everyone who, regardless of whether they prefer presenter-led content, regards these Musics as an important aspect of human intellectual culture, and not just as "light entertainment".

It has been interesting to follow this development over the years - from my hopes when I joined the BBC Messageboards, through the despair of my early years on this Forum, when I realized that, no matter what we said to the Beeb, and no matter what soothing words they sent us in response, there was no prospect of any change in the direction I feel is necessary (not just for my own satisfaction and that of others whose lives have already been improved by this Music, thanks to the R3 content and presentation of the '60s, '70s & '80s, but also for new listeners encountering it for the first time), to my current state of disillusioned indifference. Radio 3 has made itself irrelevant to me - almost entirely so (I fear for the future of the Orchestras, and for the grant to the Huddersfield Festival) - and so, when I hear about the threats to the BBC from this Government, I no longer feel that I need bother defending it (something even 10 years ago I wouldn't've believed possible) as it has effectively told me to sod off, I'm no longer welcome.

And I feel sad that I don't feel as sad about this as I should.

[Andy Freude]

The "debate" may well be "eternal", and there will always be some (maybe "many") listeners who will respond that they "like" the format as it is now. Which rather stops the "debate" and turns it into a simplistic "I like it"/"I don;t" exchange of preferences.

I've been reading this thread for some years, and could never understand how Radio 3 listeners could reduce any of the arguments into: "I think it's fine because I like it." Roll on Brexit.

Other than wonder whether ferneyhoughgeliebte meant Scala Radio or whether he was being ironic in branding it Saga FM, I agree with every word.

The Radio 3 that was undertaking the lengthy process of educating me in matters musical was violently derailed. Damaged as it is, it pleases those who want to hear the wafting of pleasant sounds. Yes, there is still some interesting live music, but live music over the radio isn't the same as live music in the concert hall, and there are now so many alternative ways of hearing music that radio matters less and less - just as serious programming becomes less and less. But as long as there are a few to say, 'Well, I enjoy it' Radio 3 will survive until it's inconvenient.

[oddoneout]

Ferney did you mean Scala Radio? SagaFM was something else, although I suppose in many people's minds R3 could be accurately called that...
As I have said so often before, given the number of hours airtime available there is absolutely no reason why a broader range of listeners' requirements couldn't be met. Moving on through the morning from presenter-led 'shows' to more meaty fare(ideally with a bit of explanation thrown in) and so on to full works. As always we are victims of the 'this is what we think we should do' mentality which pushes through 'initiatives' based on few or no facts, just perceptions(often faulty I suspect), and never evaluated, so no chance of learning what works or not.
Although I like Martin Handley's voice and style of presenting, I have found some of his sideways excursions into such things as school memories irritating because, however engaging, they seem to take up a disproportionate and irrelevant chunk of the programme. They seem better suited to social media or the kind of pleasant chat one has in a cafe with friends. I don't have so much of a problem with Ms Alker as others but I do find her rather tiring to listen to for the whole programme.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oops! Genuine mistake - I thought it was "SagaFM" (Freudean slip?)

[Andy Freude]

Erm:

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2020/01/bbc-exec-announces-ambitious-plans-for-radio-3/

"The critical shift for everyone in BBC radio has been to stop thinking of ourselves as a series of isolated stations and instead as part of a wider portfolio: a place where a listener can find audio that suits their tastes ... "

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

working even harder to get audiences to choose Radio 3, by creating a place away from the frenzy of everyday life, to revel in classical and cultural content.

In other words, it seems, furthering the idea of "Classical Music" broadcasting as soporific sequences of soft-focus "chill-out", "relaxing" excerpts.

[Andy Freude]

In other words, it seems, furthering the idea of "Classical Music" broadcasting as soporific sequences of soft-focus "chill-out", "relaxing" excerpts.

[cloughie]

I switched on R3 breakfast this morning to escape the noisy pop music of Radio Cornwall and thought the reception was not very good - no nothing wrong with it but just water enhancement, supposedly adding to the atmosphere of RVW Sea Symphony - not my top RVW favourite but then things got worse - still the water noice but also the dreadful Neil Hannon who whatever he sings to me always sounds to be singing under the note, the following Scottish Hornpipe did not help my mood, the young Schubert was fine as was the finale of Nielsen. Staying tuned for Sarah Walker I loved the Josef Bologne Violin Concerto she played and also the Vaughan Williams piano piece.

[antongould]

The "debate" may well be "eternal", and there will always be some (maybe "many") listeners who will respond that they "like" the format as it is now. Which rather stops the "debate" and turns it into a simplistic "I like it"/"I don't" exchange of preferences. ....

In my view that was not the sole input of one side of the debate ...... we, or maybe just I, said that the presenter lead style could form a bridge for newcomers to Classical music ...... the other side’s response seemed, simplistically, “ ... well I and thousands of others like me didn’t need it. “
But response to and appreciation of classical music varies enormously from person to person and I am not sure that “ditch the whole 06:30 to noon shambles” is a fair or reasonable position .....

[oddoneout]

I switched on R3 breakfast this morning to escape the noisy pop music of Radio Cornwall and thought the reception was not very good - no nothing wrong with it but just water enhancement, supposedly adding to the atmosphere of RVW Sea Symphony - not my top RVW favourite but then things got worse - still the water noice but also the dreadful Neil Hannon who whatever he sings to me always sounds to be singing under the note, the following Scottish Hornpipe did not help my mood, the young Schubert was fine as was the finale of Nielsen. Staying tuned for Sarah Walker I loved the Josef Bologne Violin Concerto she played and also the Vaughan Williams piano piece.

I agree that today's Sounds of the Earth was not the best, but for me that just highlights that most of the time I find them interesting and worth listening to, not least because of music I otherwise wouldn't come across, something I still think is part of the point of R3. Never heard of Neil Hannon, didn't like it, but a couple of minutes isn't the end of the world.

[oddoneout]

In my view that was not the sole input of one side of the debate ...... we, or maybe just I, said that the presenter lead style could form a bridge for newcomers to Classical music ...... the other side’s response seemed, simplistically, “ ... well I and thousands of others like me didn’t need it. “
But response to and appreciation of classical music varies enormously from person to person and I am not sure that “ditch the whole 06:30 to noon shambles” is a fair or reasonable position .....

It isn't - baby and bathwater come to mind. There is a compromise to be reached, but I don't think anything about the way R3 is managed has the potential to even recognise that let alone act on it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In my view that was not the sole input of one side of the debate ...... we, or maybe just I, said that the presenter lead style could form a bridge for newcomers to Classical music ...... the other side’s response seemed, simplistically, “ ... well I and thousands of others like me didn’t need it. “
But response to and appreciation of classical music varies enormously from person to person and I am not sure that “ditch the whole 06:30 to noon shambles” is a fair or reasonable position .....

I have mentioned so many times that I have lost count - and I can reassure you that this will be the last time I mention it on the Forum - that my own unfair and unreasonable position is a "Radio3Xtra" in which the needs of those listeners not currently catered for by any British broadcaster would be met, whilst leaving the "short piece and chat" audience alone with their presenter chums. If that position is to be continued to be misrepresented as a wish to "ditch the whole 6:30 to Noon shambles", then obviously nothing I say can - in spite of my many efforts - alter that now.

[antongould]

I have mentioned so many times that I have lost count - and I can reassure you that this will be the last time I mention it on the Forum - that my own unfair and unreasonable position is a "Radio3Xtra" in which the needs of those listeners not currently catered for by any British broadcaster would be met, whilst leaving the "short piece and chat" audience alone with their presenter chums. If that position is to be continued to be misrepresented as a wish to "ditch the whole 6:30 to Noon shambles", then obviously nothing I say can - in spite of my many efforts - alter that now.

You have indeed, but, as has been said before, given the government’s view of the BBC do you, realistically, think there is any chance of that ..... ??? So how, given a shrinking resource, do you create/maintain the bridge or do we, in your opinion, not need or deserve one ....