The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

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  • Lateralthinking1

    As for a strategy! -

    R1: There are some issues around the R1 retargeting. 29 year olds today would have been 15 in 1997. I see that as the year that represents the end of Britpop. That significant music phenomenon could not easily be accommodated in today's version of youth. The main culture of pop music has remained comparatively static since. You could see the target moving to 15-32 or 15-34 if that position doesn't change radically. As many people aged 35-44 listen to R1 as they do to R2. Now I know that this is the opposite to how they want things to be. They want to make it younger but this ignores the ageing population, the fact that many people stay very young indeed culturally until their 30s and the impossibility economically of producing two stations from one.

    R2: This in turn places R2 firmly in the poppier middle aged bracket with "middle age" defined as 35-75. While Titchmarsh and O'Grady hold on for the time being, frankly it is not now the station of new Pete Murrays. Bear in mind that those who saw Hendrix at the Isle of Wight Festival are now around age 60 while the fans of Bill Haley are over 70. Those in their 60s are not so much the new 40s as the older 20s. They are though currently quite distinct from, say, the over 75s, of which there are many, and who predate modern pop culture. Ultimately, R2 might need to be a pop music station that could appeal to the 35s-100s - but not yet.

    The rest: I think then you are left with three groups. One will want radio to be more stimulating. Here think R3, R4 and R6. All age groups. The BBC standard must be seen to be upheld here, more content-driven, fewer top-down decisions. One will want mainly talk rather than music. Here think R4, R4X and R5. Again all age groups. And one will want life quieter. Here think R3, R4 and R4X. Probably mainly over 44. It sounds complicated, particularly when you factor in commercial radio. But is it? Some will orientate to these. Surely it is the job of R1 to give the radio bug to 15 year olds who can't choose their own ways. Same as it ever was etc.

    Local radio: And then BBC local radio. London is different - a unique service appealing to a very wide range of people - but in most parts of the country it is probably failing in its job to pick up the Wogan fanatics. I don't see why 3 should do it. In fact, I think what I would do is close 75% of the local stations and replace them with a service that is essentially family light entertainment, appealing mainly to the elderly and children. Whatever the pop culture going into old age, there will always be a place for this type of broadcasting as some people choose to slow down in older age. By appealing to children, it would also offer some an earlier route into radio than that provided by R1 and the commercial stations. And it would help enable R3, R4 etc to be what they are.

    Content of a new R2X: Light, MOR, music. A few X-factor things. Maybe the googlie being a big emphasis on computers and media interaction of that kind. Join the surfers with the silver surfers in a very innovative way. Community interests, wherever they are across the country, as a theme. Hobbies. A bit of comedy. Some sport. The remaining 25% of local stations would become regional and provide regular feeds at key times on specific regional and local events. And they would also ideally be more "local" than local radio is now with regional accents and much greater emphasis on live performance and culture from their regions.
    Last edited by Guest; 29-08-11, 23:27.

    Comment

    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30206

      Just picking up a couple of points before retiring (to bed, I mean): First, back to dramatic changes in reach. One of the most dramatic was the rise in R2's reach when R1 cast off its oldies and sent them to R2. R2 then became more of an adult pop station than a 'middle-aged' light station and its reach exploded over about 5 years - up from under 10m to its current 13m-14m. This has held up even with R1 recovering its lost listeners.
      Originally posted by Lateralthinking1 View Post
      Numbers: I had in mind the number of listeners to Breakfast on R3. Am I right in thinking that it is generally upwards?
      Not quite as simple as that. The Breakfast figures fell back and trailed a bit. In the last year they do seem finally to have shown a significant surge, especially the last two quarters which have seen record levels. BUT ... figures overall have been very buoyant. The Today programme has also been over 7m for the first time in those same two quarters, and Chris Evans has been climbing too. I have a suspicion that there has been some sort of change in methodology but I haven't figured out what it is. It may be that they're now including other types of listening for the first time. In R3's case, there have also been massive advertising campaigns in recent years, with high profile trails running on BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Four, Radio 2 and Radio 4. (Clearly they aren't after the younger listener since those services have been omitted from the promotions.) These must have been very expensive and were paid for out of a BBC account, not R3's. Clearly, then, it's part of the BBC strategy to boost R3's ratings.

      There is also the odd point that R3's overall reach hasn't yet broken any records so it's not too clear what's happening here. One logical result of R3 aiming for a 'broader audience' is that reach ought to rise, since the broad audience has many more potential listeners than the narrow audience. Is Breakfast really pulling in a significant number of new listeners? If so, why hasn't the station reach risen? It has recovered lost ground (and there was plenty of lost ground to recover) but, unlike the Breakfast increase, this hasn't yet broken all records.

      It seems to me that each quarter has its particular hook with plenty of publicity: Q1 had the Mozartfest, Q2 had the return of the live evening concerts, Q3 - the next figures to be published - will have the Proms. I wonder what's lined up for Q4?
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • Norfolk Born

        Could I suggest, for Q4, a 'Classic Christmas Double Chart', in which listeners are invited to send in details of embarrassing/meaningful/sad/hilarious experiences during the Festive Season, and nominate their favourite carol, to be followed without a break by the big Christmas chart hit of the year in question?

        Comment

        • barber olly

          How about for Q4 we have a couple of weeks of programming R3 as it was 25 years ago to assess whether it was better then. My feeling is that the BBC over the years has been ruined by 'change for change's sake' instead of 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'. Remember the furore in the nineties when wholesale changes were made to Radio 4 and the Radio 4 lobby changed a number of them back. Radio 3 is now broken and needs a bit of retro-fixing. On Local Radio I think that most of the comments about decimating the present set up are made by London-centric people who do not see the community value of local radio. An idea that has been passed around to replace chunks of it with Radio 5 live are a nonsense. Unlike many people, it seems, who rarely retune their dial, I have never been pigeon-holed, as the BEEB appear to wish to have us pinned to one channel. At different times of the day and week I listen to 5 and I listen to Radio Cornwall - they are chalk and cheese believe me and any merger should be stopped in its tracks. I reularly listen, in addition to 3 to CFM, 4, 2 less so DAB channels because of the location of my DAB radio. My main reason for having DAB at all is beause of the appalling reception of AM (Why in the 21st Century is it still used). The sad thing about both Radio and TV these days is that there are so many occasions when there is absolutely nothing I wish to watch or hear. This may be a reflection of my interests, but I get an incresing feeling of being part of a disenfranchised agegroup.

          Comment

          • cavatina

            I have a suspicion that there has been some sort of change in methodology but I haven't figured out what it is.
            Perhaps you should have subscribed to RAJAR when they gave you the chance.

            I can't believe you're so attentive to detail and on top of this (as your paragraph above clearly demonstrates) yet are basically content to discuss these issues half-blindfolded. Three-quarters blindfolded, really.

            Comment

            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30206

              Originally posted by cavatina View Post
              Perhaps you should have subscribed to RAJAR when they gave you the chance.

              I can't believe you're so attentive to detail and on top of this (as your paragraph above clearly demonstrates) yet are basically content to discuss these issues half-blindfolded. Three-quarters blindfolded, really.
              I comment when I feel I have the necessary information. When I don't have that information, I state it clearly. If I need information, I try to discover it. If I don't need it, I don't bother.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • eighthobstruction
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 6425

                Huge wishes for Half -gagging....Three-quarters gagging....in fact even Completely gagging....no doubt....[tee Hee]....

                ....sorry ....couldn't resist
                bong ching

                Comment

                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 30206

                  Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                  Huge wishes for Half -gagging....Three-quarters gagging....in fact even Completely gagging....no doubt....[tee Hee]....

                  ....sorry ....couldn't resist
                  And I am minded to ask for a link to the statistical data on which the calculation of those percentages had been based.
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                  Comment

                  • eighthobstruction
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 6425

                    It was a Spiegel im Spiegel moment.... I was linked to clear thinking.... probably something binary, I expect....
                    ....for once [i.e. clear thinking]....
                    bong ching

                    Comment

                    • old khayyam

                      Originally posted by barber olly View Post
                      Radio 3 is now broken and needs a bit of retro-fixing
                      Sums it up for me. Now, what are we going to do about it?

                      Comment

                      • barber olly

                        Has Breakfast hit an all-time low? In the short time I tuned in this morning we had reference to the Classical Chart and its related podcast - who needs that? and as though it was what we were waiting for all morning the 'Holiday Classic' with its 'interesting' anecdote!

                        Comment

                        • Norfolk Born

                          Originally posted by barber olly View Post
                          Has Breakfast hit an all-time low? In the short time I tuned in this morning we had reference to the Classical Chart and its related podcast - who needs that? and as though it was what we were waiting for all morning the 'Holiday Classic' with its 'interesting' anecdote!
                          Probably not - but please keep me posted!

                          Comment

                          • barber olly

                            Originally posted by old khayyam View Post
                            Sums it up for me. Now, what are we going to do about it?
                            How about buying Penny Gore a new alarm clock and box of CDs with works lasting up to half an hour each!

                            Comment

                            • mercia
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 8920

                              just about to turn on Breakfast and I see from the playlist there's another blinking Schubert Impromptu coming up

                              I wonder if the resident statistician could tell me how many times Schubert Impromptus have been played so far this year?

                              Comment

                              • AndyJW
                                Full Member
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 78

                                #724..........and we had the Toccata from C.M. Widor's 5th organ symphony AGAIN.......and now we are going to have phone-ins so I'm afraid I've had it with the 'Breakfast Show' Thank goodness for wi-fi and the internet!
                                Do the people 'at the top' and R3 controller read these posts?
                                Andy

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