The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[oddoneout]

Cripes it's all a bit cheery cheery Irish Irish today, isn't it...

We're in Ireland - cue folkmusic. Charming an' all as it may be is that the only music produced there? Talk about stereotyping....

[antongould]

Cripes it's all a bit cheery cheery Irish Irish today, isn't it...

The Squire IMVVHO deserves a holiday ..... BUT seemed to press the disconnect button and didn't know which way the Derry train went ......

[oddoneout]

The Squire IMVVHO deserves a holiday ..... BUT seemed to press the disconnect button and didn't know which way the Derry train went ......

Well, to London obviously...
Was it the 'I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue' radio show which came up with the origins of the 'London Derriere'?

[french frank]

Cripes it's all a bit cheery cheery Irish Irish today, isn't it...

Coincidentally, I might have used the opportunity last week (but didn't) to remark: If you have a breakfast show that consists of 4 minutes of Elgar (Chanson de Matin, say), 8 minutes of Bach before 8, or 7, 3 minutes of Percy Grainger and on and on and on: I don't understand what the programme is FOR. Is it to start people off on their journey through the day with some nice sounds wafting through the air as they get dressed, make their toast and coffee, glance through their post &c.?

If so, in my (as Ld Gould would say) VVVHO, that's a rubbish show and Radio 3 should do something better.

But a programme coming from Derry (why? but that's another issue) which plays a variety of Irish related pieces of music, okay, including some reels and jigs , does have a point. It's the connectedness that gives the varied music its raison d'être. For me. That said, I didn't listen as I don't listen to Breakfast: I like to think of myself as more of an ideas person

[antongould]

....... Is it to start people off on their journey through the day with some nice sounds wafting through the air as they get dressed, make their toast and coffee, glance through their post &c.?

.......

Yes I think it is and IMVVHO that is not a bad objective ..... but we have been here before ..... and I don't want to exasperate you away .....

[french frank]

Yes I think it is and IMVVHO that is not a bad objective ..... but we have been here before ..... and I don't want to exasperate you away .....

I have been pondering your reply, ag, and I think what I wanted to say (but omitted) was that I didn't see what the point of such a programme was musically. Obviously, if people want some nice sounds wafting through the air to start them off on their day, it suits them very well. There are some who think radio serves a useful function as a companion for the lonely i.e. a social function rather than a musical one. It brings us back to Roger Wright's remark to his audience that 'we are just a radio station.'

My point is that I think Radio 3 should offer something more than that musically and never be mistaken for 'just a radio station' which fits various people's lifestyles. The Irish programme had a point, musically, with a few things like Joan Trimble, Hamilton Harty, Havelock Nelson with Pappano/DiDonato (to say nothing of Bax and Moeran) that we hear less frequently. And, blimey, it's still probably the least demanding programme on R3 … Really, only 16 pieces this morning? The highest I counted back in the SMP days was 29!
[Thinks: But that was probably when it was 3hrs long - but 16 in 90 minutes is a lot less]

[ahinton]

Coincidentally, I might have used the opportunity last week (but didn't) to remark: If you have a breakfast show that consists of 4 minutes of Elgar (Chanson de Matin, say), 8 minutes of Bach before 8, or 7, 3 minutes of Percy Grainger and on and on and on: I don't understand what the programme is FOR. Is it to start people off on their journey through the day with some nice sounds wafting through the air as they get dressed, make their toast and coffee, glance through their post &c.?

Were that the case and were I a listener to the programme, there would be complaints aplenty because glancing through such post here that's actually been correctly delivered might take until In Tune time given the habitually dilatory nature of Royal Fail's delivery "service", thereby turning it into an "all-day-Breakfast" programme...

[french frank]

But, pursuing the point doggedly, as with a bone: I don't really feel the question is whether a programme 'suits' someone, nor whether it 'suits' a whole lot of people and they all enjoy it. That would be catering for a 'popular majority'. So bring on The Archers or Friday Night is Music Night.

The point - for me - is about putting forward reasons for why a programme, or presenter style, might be considered 'right' for Radio 3 and why another might be considered 'wrong'. That issue isn't satisfied by individuals saying they 'enjoy' X or 'like' Y. No radio station should set out to please an individual (and doesn't, as far as I know), but neither has Radio 3 any need to try to please a broad audience either.

It should define what it's about and then the matter of what it does and how it does it becomes clear. Listeners texting in to suggest what goes in the Music Box today? Or 'What's the recipe today, Jim?'

[EdgeleyRob]

Did any of John Kinsella's Symphonies feature ?

https://www.cmc.ie/composers/john-kinsella

[DaisyDog]

Oh no, that 'London Derriere' reference is a much older joke. I once had an LP (remember those?) with that title, and that was over 50 years ago. Spike Milligan used that joke so it is possibly his. Sounds like him.

[oddoneout]

Oh no, that 'London Derriere' reference is a much older joke. I once had an LP (remember those?) with that title, and that was over 50 years ago. Spike Milligan used that joke so it is possibly his. Sounds like him.

The obvious pun aspect of the well known tune will have been around for yonks, but in the context of the radio show it was the culmination of one of the short story type rounds they had. Another one concerned 'The Soiree with the binge on top'
And yup, I remember LPs - still got lots and still play them - but music rather than spoken word.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The obvious pun aspect of the well known tune will have been around for yonks, but in the context of the radio show it was the culmination of one of the short story type rounds they had. Another one concerned 'The Soiree with the binge on top'

Sounds like the concluding rounds of My Word - the one that sticks out in my own memory is Frank Muir's "supine Californian mystic exports halitosis".

[Pulcinella]

I don't understand what the programme is FOR.

It seems to be to be another vehicle for self-promotion.
Particularly during the Proms season (I have only started to tune in post referendum instead of listening to Today on R4, and even then only occasionally and quite recently), the premise seems to be to provide some sort of link to something happening later on in the day, so we get a piece featuring a performer who is going to appear later, or something by a composer whose work is being performed later. It might give the progamme planners a bit of a challenge in coming up with the playlist, but for me it has very little 'coherence' as a sequence of musical snippets. Perhaps I'm expecting too much.

[kernelbogey]

[...] for me it has very little 'coherence' as a sequence of musical snippets. Perhaps I'm expecting too much.

Through the Night has no 'coherence' that I'm aware of. It frequently starts with most of a concert, or a complete opera, after which it progresses to a recondite sequence of chamber, solo, vocal and orchestral works whose only connection is that they are recordings of live performance from all over Europe (and elsewhere, e.g. Canada) and not infrequently of historical importance.

Yet is is a triumph, and in my VVHO the best thing on R3. It is the spontaneity of the performances which give the programme a raison d'etre; and the very restricted, almost (but not quite) self-effacing nature of the continuity announcements that give the music its rightful prominence.

I've said it before, and believe it worth repeating, that this would be my model for a distinctive early morning programme - albeit, just maybe, admitting commerical CD recordings .

[french frank]

Through the Night has no 'coherence' that I'm aware of. It frequently starts with most of a concert, or a complete opera, after which it progresses to a recondite sequence of chamber, solo, vocal and orchestral works whose only connection is that they are recordings of live performance from all over Europe (and elsewhere, e.g. Canada) and not infrequently of historical importance.

The difference is that, going by last night, there were 22 separate works, omitting the theme music, stretched over 6 hours (roughly 4 an hour on average) which means you can really settle in to the pieces. You don't need external 'coherence' to listen to a complete symphony or the whole of Ravel's Miroirs.

Breakfast has often had more than 22 pieces over 150 minutes - approx 9 an hour. Before you've settled down to a piece you're on to something completely different. But pieces are getting longer and the 'variety show' feel is lessening. I wouldn't expect it to be a continuation of TTN in style (not that I'd grumble!).