The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[ahinton]

A word of warning. When this idea was mooted a few years ago, a poll suggested the composer most wanted for the purpose was ALW.

Great idea! That should see of national anthems in this country for the foreseeable...

[LeMartinPecheur]

Still can't see the point of national anthems, meself; smacks too much of the I'm English/Welsh/Scottish/Eritrean/whatever so I'm superior to you syndrome...

ah: in which case I can't see why you didn't react enthusiastically to the number I proposed in #6151

[ahinton]

ah: in which case I can't see why you didn't react enthusiastically to the number I proposed in #6151

Je ne comprends pas; this was indeed the very reason that I responded unenthusiatically to such an idea, on the grounds that there's often a risk that national anthems can be - or at least be perceived as - divisive!

[LeMartinPecheur]

Je ne comprends pas; this was indeed the very reason that I responded unenthusiatically to such an idea, on the grounds that there's often a risk that national anthems can be - or at least be perceived as - divisive!

I may of course be wrong, but isn't the whole point of that deliberately OTT F&S number to totally take the p*** out of facile, stupid nationalism and xenophobic stereotypes??

[ahinton]

I may of course be wrong, but isn't the whole point of that deliberately OTT F&S number to totally take the p*** out of facile, stupid nationalism and xenophobic stereotypes??

I would certainly hope so insofar as it goes, but don't forget that it dates back so many years that many people under the age of half a century might not even have heard of Flanders and Swann and accordingly not be expected to "get" what one might reasonably assume to be the underlying irony in the expression of the sentiments concerned (or indeed the manner in which they were expressed). Moreover, it doesn't in any case leave any of those who might wish for an English National Anthem any nearer a genuinely credible contender for one!

[alycidon]

Jerusalem - you must be joking - you want to hijack it from the WI?
You really want to build Jerusalem? You like the mess of the Middle East?
Great tune - but the words!
All the satanic mills that haven't been gentrified into apartments have been demolished by Blaster Bates or Fred Dibnah.
'I vow to thee my country' is the one - otherwise write a new one.
Alternatively you could big up the N/S divide with 'Hills of the North rejoice'

Some years ago I was organist at Inverness crematorium and was amazed at the number of occasions that Jerusalem was requested to be sung. It just seemed strange that Scots should want to sing about England's green and pleasant land.

I can only imagine that making the arrangements for a loved one's funeral is so traumatic that the person making the choices is in no state to think lucidly, but I would have thought that the funeral director should offer guidance in that respect.

Having said that, I did have to play some mighty funny stuff on occasion.

[cloughie]

Some years ago I was organist at Inverness crematorium and was amazed at the number of occasions that Jerusalem was requested to be sung. It just seemed strange that Scots should want to sing about England's green and pleasant land.

I can only imagine that making the arrangements for a loved one's funeral is so traumatic that the person making the choices is in no state to think lucidly, but I would have thought that the funeral director should offer guidance in that respect.

Having said that, I did have to play some mighty funny stuff on occasion.

My only question is it fitness for purpose as an English National Anthem. Nothing wrong with the song and I have sung along with it at weddings, funerals and informally along with male voice choir members accompanying WI members.

[french frank]

My only question is it fitness for purpose as an English National Anthem. Nothing wrong with the song and I have sung along with it at weddings, funerals and informally along with male voice choir members accompanying WI members.

As I understand it, 'anthem' nowadays means a song which is familiar to a large number of people who are therefore able to join in with singing it, and Jerusalem fits that purpose. A 'national anthem' additionally would need to be 'appropriate' in its words.

The fact that people here believe that 'Jerusalem' has something to do with a Middle Eastern city by that name indicates that they don't understand the reference. Others who also don't know the significance wouldn't even question it, I submit.

[ardcarp]

By co-incidence, David Mellor played it about an hour ago on....... ClassicFM.

Has anyone mentioned that it's just a flippin' good tune and a good sing? I'd have it at my funeral if I could be sure of joining in.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So, if there is to be such an Anthem, (I'm more of an Internationale chap, messel'n) the words of Jerusalem are much better than most, and the tune isn't bad, either (but preferably not in the Elgar orchestration, where the Satanic Mills of the orchestra drown out the voices of the people singing - just a piano; or even Billy Bragg's arrangement/re-setting).

At least it's in 4/4 time, so Beyoncé and Kiri te Kanawa wouldn't have to change the rhythm (as in The Star Spangled Banner and The World in Union).

I remember accompanying Jerusalem on the piano in a school assembly in the 1970s. The other teachers were almost falling over themselves with mirth, and afterwards they said it sounded as though I was playing a piano concerto. (I think the previous person who accompanied it had missed out the introduction.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

At least it's in 4/4 time, so Beyoncé and Kiri te Kanawa wouldn't have to change the rhythm (as in The Star Spangled Banner and The World in Union).

??? What is?

I remember accompanying Jerusalem on the piano in a school assembly in the 1970s. The other teachers were almost falling over themselves with mirth, and afterwards they said it sounded as though I was playing a piano concerto. (I think the previous person who accompanied it had missed out the introduction.)

Well - if you will play Jerusalem in 4/4!

[cloughie]

By co-incidence, David Mellor played it about an hour ago on....... ClassicFM.

Has anyone mentioned that it's just a flippin' good tune and a good sing? I'd have it at my funeral if I could be sure of joining in.

Do you ask the question because you've not read the thread?

Yes it is a cracking good tune and very singable!

And ff whatever the context of the original, Jerusalem is a Middle Eastern City, which has not always had good press over recent years.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

??? What is?


Well - if you will play Jerusalem in 4/4!

THIS IS SO EMBARASSING.

Please ignore everything I said in my previous post. I am a complete imbecile. How can I criticise Beyoncé for what I do myself?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

THIS IS SO EMBARASSING.
Please ignore everything I said in my previous post. I am a complete imbecile. How can I criticise Beyoncé for what I do myself?

I KNOW! Ever since I stopped teaching, I've found that I've started making the most RIDICULOUS errors - just like that sort of thing. It's as if my memory's telling me "Well, if you aren't working except when you feel like it, don't expect me to!"

[antongould]

The Squire played Holst, George Lloyd and Lennox Berkeley this morning - although the latter was, perhaps, a little spot of self publicity as he and Lennox are on The Essay this evening.
I don't know if anyone has listened to the series so far - I have quite enjoyed it. However last night George Enescu bowed out quite quickly to make way for the How CBH Is Saving The World Show .....