The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[cloughie]

but you said Hartlepool would get promoted - what do you know about England?

Did I say when?
England is that the land mass east of the Tamar?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

see #6158

I had - I thought it was a spoof! Were these meant to be serious objections???!!!

[Stanfordian]

Jerusalem - you must be joking - you want to hijack it from the WI?
You really want to build Jerusalem? You like the mess of the Middle East?
Great tune - but the words!
All the satanic mills that haven't been gentrified into apartments have been demolished by Blaster Bates or Fred Dibnah.
'I vow to thee my country' is the one - otherwise write a new one.
Alternatively you could big up the N/S divide with 'Hills of the North rejoice'

Hiya Cloughie,

I can fully understand that an English team would want to hear a more uplifting and exhuberant anthem than the dirge-like 'God Save the Queen.' I agree with you that there is no way in this world an English football crowd would sing Jerusalem but I could visualise a Rugby Union crowd singing it at an International match; although I doubt they will. However, I can imagine an English crowd singing something like 'Three Lions' (on my shirt... footballs coming home).

I always feel that is incongruous to teams to go out and do battle, sweat blood, putting their lives on the line (figuratively speaking) whilst holding the hands of young children. Decades ago when I played a team might have a mascot now its almost a class of junior schoool children.

[Anna]

I don't think a lot of people would be happy with any of the suggestions because they all mention Jesus or God so are hardly inclusive in a multi-cultural country.

Jerusalem has 'the Holy Lamb of God' and 'did His Countenance Divine' in the lyrics
I Vow to Thee's second verse is about Heaven (a Christian one obviously)
Land of Hope is all about God

Obviously it needs a new composition entirely (which unfortunately means it'll turn out to be a dirge rather like Flower of Scotland)

[cloughie]

I don't think a lot of people would be happy with any of the suggestions because they all mention Jesus or God so are hardly inclusive in a multi-cultural country.

Jerusalem has 'the Holy Lamb of God' and 'did His Countenance Divine' in the lyrics
I Vow to Thee's second verse is about Heaven (a Christian one obviously)
Land of Hope is all about God

Obviously it needs a new composition entirely (which unfortunately means it'll turn out to be a dirge rather like Flower of Scotland)

I think you're right Anna, but it doesn't not have to be a dirge - lively can be done eg Trelawny, Hymns and Arias - not suggesting the tunes are borrowed but the spirit and tempo.

[cloughie]

I had - I thought it was a spoof! Were these meant to be serious objections???!!!

Some of it was serious but the Hills bit was a wind up. Jerusalem has been adopted by the WI and should stay with them. As I said in my response to Anna a newie is the answer. Oh and off thread, this one anyway - the AA D is rightly yours you may have more time than I at the moment to service it.

[cloughie]

Hiya Cloughie,

I can fully understand that an English team would want to hear a more uplifting and exhuberant anthem than the dirge-like 'God Save the Queen.' I agree with you that there is no way in this world an English football crowd would sing Jerusalem but I could visualise a Rugby Union crowd singing it at an International match; although I doubt they will. However, I can imagine an English crowd singing something like 'Three Lions' (on my shirt... footballs coming home).

I always feel that is incongruous to teams to go out and do battle, sweat blood, putting their lives on the line (figuratively speaking) whilst holding the hands of young children. Decades ago when I played a team might have a mascot now its almost a class of junior schoool children.

I don't know it's amazing what some football crowds latch on to...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As I said in my response to Anna a newie is the answer.

A word of warning. When this idea was mooted a few years ago, a poll suggested the composer most wanted for the purpose was ALW.

[Anna]

A word of warning. When this idea was mooted a few years ago, a poll suggested the composer most wanted for the purpose was ALW.

Well he does have a good track record of writing popular tunes ....
I think this one, Rose of England, by Ivor Novello, would be ideal. It's very rousing, easy to sing, not cursing ones enemies,non-denominational and the rose is the emblem of England. Here sung by Vera Lynn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPmGuXJLXJ8

[cloughie]

A word of warning. When this idea was mooted a few years ago, a poll suggested the composer most wanted for the purpose was ALW.

Just put it out as open to anyone to write it - there must be many out there able to do the job. ALW couldn't even put a decent Eurovision song out and as for that thing he did in collaboration with Gary Barlow for the Palace Concert in 2012 - lucky to escape the Tower really.

[muzzer]

Perhaps ALW could jet back especially for it. Or not. Preferably. Incidentally, skellers is handling the "chart" very well this morning IMHO ...

[antongould]

Perhaps ALW could jet back especially for it. Or not. Preferably. Incidentally, skellers is handling the "chart" very well this morning IMHO ...

Indeed treating it with "the respect" it probably deserves .....

[french frank]

I noticed yesterday he was on the Salford shift …

[antongould]

I noticed yesterday he was on the Salford shift …

IIRC the boy Handley is off conducting for a while ...

[ahinton]

Well he does have a good track record of writing popular tunes ....
I think this one, Rose of England, by Ivor Novello, would be ideal. It's very rousing, easy to sing, not cursing ones enemies,non-denominational and the rose is the emblem of England. Here sung by Vera Lynn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPmGuXJLXJ8

One problem with this is that David Ivor Davies's work is still in copyright; another might be that an "English National Anthem" by a Welsh composer could be fronwed upon by some.

Anyway, why should there be an English National Anthem without those of Wales and Scotland attaining similar stature as such? - i.e as a consequence of abandoning a "British" one?

Still can't see the point of national anthems, meself; smacks too much of the I'm English/Welsh/Scottish/Eritrean/whatever so I'm superior to you syndrome...