The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[french frank]

I returned from putting out the rubbish just now to hear the strains of the last movement of same (Mrs T had surreptitiously tuned in to Breakfast). CB-H completely mangled Aranjuez, I couldn't begin to render her version phonetically .

PS do you mean to say that KD played it on 4.7 ? That was less than 3 weeks ago! Perhaps it was a different movement BTW I switched back to Today

No, I meant CB-H played it on 4.7 as well. But as the now departed Controller would quickly have pointed out: "Not the same movement." Nor the same performer - last time it was the version in the SCC Top 20: this time it was Hoolián Bréam (no, she didn't really!).

[Don Petter]

Which is a limerick!

In my book a limerick is a stand alone five line stanza, with the first line introducing both person and place. Gilbert's first stanza has nine lines with a place mentioned only in the last. Hence my not thinking of it as such.

[jean]

Ten lines, surely? A double limerick?

I think Gilbert knew what he was doing.

[Don Petter]

Ten lines, surely? A double limerick?

The number of lines seems to vary! The version I looked at had:

Oh, my name is John Wellington Wells
I'm a dealer in magic and spells
In blessings and curses
And ever-filled purses
In prophecies, witches, and knells
If you want a proud foe to "make tracks"
If you'd melt a rich uncle in wax
You've but to look in on our resident Djinn
Number seventy, Simmery Axe

but the MIT Players website has:

Oh! my name is John Wellington Wells,
I'm a dealer in magic and spells,
In blessings and curses
And ever-filled purses,
In prophecies, witches, and knells.
If you want a proud foe to "make tracks"--
If you'd melt a rich uncle in wax--
You've but to look in
On the resident Djinn,
Number seventy, Simmery Axe!

Which also has one word difference. Does anyone have the urtext?

[Bax-of-Delights]

No, I meant CB-H played it on 4.7 as well. But as the now departed Controller would quickly have pointed out: "Not the same movement." Nor the same performer - last time it was the version in the SCC Top 20: this time it was Hoolián Bréam (no, she didn't really!).

Well, C B-H lobbed in the Intermezzo from Kodaly's Hary Janos Suite last Friday and hey presto! it popped up again in Rob Cowan's Sunday morning programme just 48 hours later.
This morning there was a request for the Britten Variations on a Theme by Frank Bridge in the "Best of British" thingy. Blimey, I thought, that'll soak up 20 minutes and they'll cut out the quarterly hour news. Not to worry though we got just the opening theme and the first variation so we could be kept abreast of the vital news we had heard just 15 minutes previously.

[french frank]

Well, C B-H lobbed in the Intermezzo from Kodaly's Hary Janos Suite last Friday and hey presto! it popped up again in Rob Cowan's Sunday morning programme just 48 hours later.

Curated by someone different, presumably!

[french frank]

I returned from putting out the rubbish just now to hear the strains of the last movement of same (Mrs T had surreptitiously tuned in to Breakfast). CB-H completely mangled Aranjuez, I couldn't begin to render her version phonetically .

Her pronunciation was very consistent - it's how she pronounced it last time, so no one corrected it. And we are not alone.

1. A 'soft' c, following i is pronounced as unvoiced th (as in thin, not ch as in chat - that's Italian). So Conthierto.

2. de is pronounced much like Deh in Italian (or like English 'day' before a vowel), not duh which is more like French

3.

a) Aranjuez is stressed on the final syllable, not the first: nouns/proper names are stressed on the final if they end in a consonant.

b) the j is like a strongly aspirated 'h', and slightly guttural

c) the final z in Castilian is like the soft c - th. At a pinch, S. American pronunciation is 's' (as in sip), but not z (in zip).

ConTHIERto day Ar(r)an(C)HHHUETH would be a reasonable attempt. But don't exaggerate.

This may be a breach of copyright:

[Richard Tarleton]

No, I meant CB-H played it on 4.7 as well. But as the now departed Controller would quickly have pointed out: "Not the same movement." Nor the same performer - last time it was the version in the SCC Top 20: this time it was Hoolián Bréam (no, she didn't really!).

That really says it all. So did she play the first movement three weeks before that? The entire work is slight enough as it is, and not very long. You can just about get away with playing the slow movement on its own, as many do, but to play the last movement on its own is una barbaridad, it's a savoury trifle to restore the acid balance after the excesses of the adagio. This curator has a tin ear

When I saw Williams and the LSO do it 40 years ago the trumpets were lounging back in their seats in the third movement and appeared to be chatting as they waited for their cue....

[jean]

...Does anyone have the urtext?

My mother's copy of the complete text of the Savoy Operas (Macmillan 1939, presented to my father during their engagement in an unsuccessful attempt to convert him to G & S) has a gap between the two limericks, and the third and fourth line of each indented.

Not sure how authoritative it is, but it's our not the resident Djinn.

And...who knew?

[Don Petter]

My mother's copy of the complete text of the Savoy Operas (Macmillan 1939, presented to my father during their engagement in an unsuccessful attempt to convert him to G & S) has a gap between the two limericks, and the third and fourth line of each indented.

Not sure how authoritative it is, but it's our not the resident Djinn.

And...who knew?

Fair enough. We must get these things right, or we won't be allowed back into P's Paradise.

I did know about Simmery, but not sure how widespread that knowledge would be these days.


I am now thinking of entering a strict Learian order in which all limericks must end first and last lines with the same word.

[Padraig]

My mother's copy of the complete text of the Savoy Operas (Macmillan 1939, presented to my father during their engagement in an unsuccessful attempt to convert him to G & S) has a gap between the two limericks, and the third and fourth line of each indented.

Not sure how authoritative it is, but it's our not the resident Djinn.

And...who knew?

To answer your question, jean, I didn't, but I enjoyed finding out. Well discovered!.... But wait... you knew all the time didn't you?

I have the same information as you regarding the layout and words, in my 1956 edition of the same book, so no corroboration there. It was given to me by a pupil in response to something I taught them in class - probably Little Buttercup, though I cannot tell why. Unlike your father I was, and am, quite a fan.

[jean]

...But wait... you knew all the time didn't you?

Actually, no - unlike Don Petter!

I described the book as my mother's, but it wasn't, was it, if she gave it to my father? But I think he never really took possession.

I love her inscription, though:

'For he is a judge - and a good judge, too!'

[french frank]

And...who knew?

Yes, I did too (at least, I knew what the words meant, but not every bit of the detail) because I look up that kind of thing, like:

"Expressive glances
Shall be our lances
And pops of Sillery
Our light artillery ..." [Princess Ida]

And who Captain Shaw was

"Oh, Captain Shaw,
Type of true love kept under,
Could thy brigade with cold cascade,
Quench my great love, I wonder ...". [Iolanthe]

[muzzer]

I'll see your Zhanine Jansen and raise you a Yoolia Fischer.....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I slept through Breakfast this morning, but a friend, staying with us at present, has just remarked that the presenter was so intense in her gasping for breath, that she needs anxiety counselling. I told her not to worry, as this does not appear to be a problem for this presenter, as all the Radio 3 a.m. presenters are evidently taught to do it.

But it was interesting hear this comment from an unbiased neutral.