Opera on 3 29.03.14 - Die Frau Ohne Schatten (ROH)

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  • Nachtigall
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 146

    #46
    Fabulous performance at the ROH tonight. Five stunning singers in the main roles, a huge orchestra playing for all they were worth under Maestro Bychkov, deliriously sumptuous music which at the conclusion of Act III gave one goose pimples and made the hair stand up on the back of the neck simultaneously.

    The front row centre of the Amphitheatre is the place to be, despite the restricted legroom: it gives one a complete view of the orchestra the full rich sound of which rises up towards one through the House – and one can easily take in the surtitles as they're on the same level as the eye.

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    • Belgrove
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 948

      #47
      Excellent presentation by Donald Macleod with interesting contributions in the intervals (thankfully sans the effusive and vacuous guff as proffered from the Met).

      Claus Guth said that even he does not understand the symbolism and plot machinations, which is a relief. I have known and admired this opera for many years (Bohm being my introduction) but have never understood it, nor frankly thought it worth the effort to come to grips with, unlike the works of Wagner which have a universality of meaning and logic which makes them compelling theatrically. For example, the Wife goes through all the lengthy business of telling Barak that she has sold her shadow, provoking him to anger, only to then say, 'I didn't do it after all'. This is just sloppy plotting which serves no discernible function in propelling the story forward.

      Reading the stage directions during last night's wonderful performance, the last act is clearly inspired by Part II of Goethe's Faust. 'A beautiful landscape, rising steeply, appears; in the middle, a golden waterfall descends from a fissure. The Emperor and Empress are seen above the waterfall, climbing down from the heights.' But to what purpose? I thought that Guth's solution to the huge problems that this work poses were persuasive and made of it as much sense as one could reasonably hope. Odd that no one had thought of telling it as a psycho-drama before now. Through Keikobad falling dead at the end, the Empress has slain her father's influence and can become her own woman, she's grown up. A nice touch that picks up on the the Oedipal business left over from Elektra and on Viennese intellectual thought of the time. Although not in the stage directions, I'd like to think that Hofmannsthal would have approved. But the final tableau leaves a chilling question mark over whether the Empress has truly found fulfilment, blink and you'd miss it.

      Despite its flaws as a work of theatre, it is a musical tour de force and the planets were all aligned to give Covent Garden one of their great nights at the opera - everything was right. It was a privilege to see it.

      Comment

      • Nachtigall
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 146

        #48
        Originally posted by Belgrove View Post
        Odd that no one had thought of telling it as a psycho-drama before now. Through Keikobad falling dead at the end, the Empress has slain her father's influence and can become her own woman, she's grown up. A nice touch that picks up on the the Oedipal business left over from Elektra and on Viennese intellectual thought of the time. Although not in the stage directions, I'd like to think that Hofmannsthal would have approved. But the final tableau leaves a chilling question mark over whether the Empress has truly found fulfilment, blink and you'd miss it.
        I haven't heard what Guth has said, but his ending (the Empress in bed with the Nurse once more in attendance) reminded me of those typical primary school story-telling efforts which end with the cliché, "I woke up and it was all a dream", which justifies any kind of surrealistic nonsense. I too, despite having four recordings in my collection and having seen the opera staged on three occasions, can never remember the details or the supposed significance of the plot. I'd almost say it doesn't matter because the music is so sublime and some of the dramatic moments intensely moving.

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        • JimD
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 267

          #49
          Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
          Following good reviews, I'm now really looking forward.
          Well, don't keep us in suspense!

          Comment

          • gurnemanz
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 7405

            #50
            Originally posted by JimD View Post
            Well, don't keep us in suspense!
            We entered the Opera House at about 5.30 in buoyant mood having consulted the smart phone to discover that in the world of mortals down at Selhurst Park Crystal Palace - the Eagles - had by some miracle defeated Chelsea. What followed was also a kind of miracle (also heavily featuring bird life) in that we were presented with a marvellously impressive attempt at staging what was going on in someone's unconscious. I thought it was brilliantly well sung with no weaknesses I could detect. You could probably have just listened to the orchestra for three hours and gone home happy. Emily Magee gave a rivetingly acted and sung central (i.e. hardly off stage) performance. At the end of it I was not sure exactly what I had witnessed but I had greatly enjoyed whatever it was. Since there is always going to some difficulty inherent in gaining insight into the significance of someone else's dream, the best approach is just to sit back and let it go to work on you. For me, Wagner works in a similar way.

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            • Stanley Stewart
              Late Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1071

              #51
              Last night's R3 broadcast was also a compelling experience. Hard to believe that it almost 40 years since I saw the ROH production by Rudolf Hartmann, conducted by Georg Solti, and several images still linger in the mind. I do agree that the best solution is to let the action simmer as each subsequent hearing widens and deepens our degree of understanding. I'm all set to revisit the Decca DVD: Gotz Friedrich's production, also conducted by Solti/VPO at the 1992 Salzburg Festival.

              Semyon Bychkov also contributed well to last night's interval discussion, between
              Act 2 & 3, and I'll happily settle for his summary that the libretto is also an allegory for collaboration and reconciliation.

              Comment

              • JimD
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 267

                #52
                Glad you weren't disappointed by your impulse buy...which I could have gone!

                Comment

                • David-G
                  Full Member
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 1216

                  #53
                  I was at the last night of "Die Frau" last Wednesday. Act 3 builds to a great climax; the Empress is faced with the decision of whether to accept the shadow, thereby destroying the human couple but saving her husband the Emperor, or rejecting it, saving the human couple but at the cost of the Emperor being petrified. The Empress is torn between these irreconcilables, and finally these words are wrung out of her: "ICH WILL NICHT!" (I will not accept the shadow). This is the catharsis of the drama, and it is followed by a long and tense silence. And during this silence, from about ten seats away, somewhere in the front row of the Balcony, I clearly heard the words: "What language is that?"

                  Comment

                  • Cockney Sparrow
                    Full Member
                    • Jan 2014
                    • 2290

                    #54
                    You have my sympathy - random comments/exchanges, Smartphone checking, rampant unthinking coughing, programme rustling, cellophane ripping, - nothing is going to be done about it by concert or opera house management - after all they are only interested in appealing to a wider audience and are terrified of raising any issue which might be seen as elitist, or inhibit the marketing effort. I might be wrong, but there used to be some minor publicity to promote consideration in the past.

                    For myself, I have resolved (hope I am brave enough to carry it out) to politely raise with any person distracting us, close by where I sit (on behalf of all others within range) but otherwise find a way of coping (it may mean I just don't go any more) and then complaining in the interval, and then formally complaining at the end. (Not with any expectation it will make a difference.....).

                    Comment

                    • gurnemanz
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7405

                      #55
                      Also saw Frau ohne Schatten which was blessedly free of such interruptions but we were there again on Sunday for Jonas Kafmann and Helmut Deutsch doing Winterrreise. There was an inordinate amount of annoyingly noticeable coughing. Admittedly, those afflicted tried to fit it in between the songs but the performers were deliberately not leaving long gaps, so the beginning of the next song was invariably accompanied by a chorus of guttural raspings from around the large auditorium.

                      We recently saw the play Versailles at the Donmar and a mobile phone rang during a poignant confrontation scene at the end of the drama. The actors ignored it, just standing still and pausing till it stopped. This is probably the best approach but they must feel like leaving the stage to throttle the culprit.

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                      • LHC
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1561

                        #56
                        Mobile phones going off can be terribly distracting, but its not always the fault of an insensitive perpetrator. There was a infamous case in New York recently when an phone went off in the final bars of Mahler 9. The conductor, Alan Gilbert, stopped the performance and waited for the phone to be switched off (the guilty party was sitting in the front row) while member of the audience shouted abuse at the perpetrator ("kick him out", $1000 fine" etc).

                        However, it subsequently transpired that no-one was more mortified than the man himself. His company blackberry had been changed to an IPhone the day before, and although he had been careful to switch the phone to silent mode, he did not know that the phone alarm call was still on. Full story here:



                        I am always careful to switch off my phone, but can imagine how awful it must be to have this happen.
                        "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
                        Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

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                        • David-G
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 1216

                          #57
                          To be truthful, my little incident at "Die Frau" was more amusing than annoying. I managed to see the funny side, and not let it impinge on my involvement in the drama.

                          You are quite right about the coughing at "Winterreise". I was in the Upper Slips, from up there the coughers were some way below us and were not too bothersome; and as you pointed out, people did seem to be trying to do their coughing in the gaps between the songs. Far worse was my experience at "Prince Igor" last week. My neighbour, a middle-aged lady, occasionally and randomly coughed during the performance, with no attempt to stifle or muffle it. This was not a coughing fit, she was simply clearing her throat out loud whenever she felt the need. I decided not to say anything (which I perhaps regret), on the grounds that a poisonous atmosphere between me and my neighbour would destroy my involvement with the opera more than her occasional loud cough.

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                          • Flosshilde
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 7988

                            #58
                            Spotted a copy of Karajan's recording with the Vienna State Opera (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294) for £9.00 in a charity shop. A live recording, in mono, with not great sound & Act 2 chopped about a bit, but the reviews suggest it's worth getting - any views from the board? (It's probably gone by now, but still ...)

                            Comment

                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
                              Spotted a copy of Karajan's recording with the Vienna State Opera (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294) for £9.00 in a charity shop. A live recording, in mono, with not great sound & Act 2 chopped about a bit, but the reviews suggest it's worth getting - any views from the board? (It's probably gone by now, but still ...)
                              I have this recording in an "unofficial" edition, Flossie - for years it was the only way I knew the opera and it's a magnificent performance (on my version audience applause is kept - and after the final chord has faded away someone in the audience calls out "Bravo, von Karajan!" - I think it's the shade of Strauss himself! A great pity that Karajan never took it into the recording studio (nor Elektra nor Tannhauser for that matter). The climax of Act Three is ... wow! I suspect that the DG release has better sound than mine, but even that is very acceptable. I love it, for all its faults.
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                              • Flosshilde
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 7988

                                #60
                                I did think that at that price it would be worth it, but it would be my first recording & I wouldn't, I think, want it to be my only one.

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