Are (were) Gilbert and Sullivan really so bad?

[aeolium]

My point was that it doesn't matter if it's not a good performance, and it is performable in a way that a lot of standard opera is not by non-professional opera companies (and they know that and don't try). No-one has to go to see an amateur G&S performance but it seems to me that anything that encourages amateur music-making (as well as professional) is a good thing.

[Flosshilde]

Micky, you're response to aeolium is much better than mine!

My first exposure to theatre & musical theatre (by which I also incliude opera) was 'Patience' performed by the local amateur society, when I was about 10. It didn't put me off opera, though!

My next encounter with G&S was a school production of 'Pirates' when I helped with scenery painting & so on - I had rather a 'pash' on the Ralph Rackstraw . I wonder waht happened to him?

[Simon]

No. Far from being "bad", they were each brilliant in his own way.

Gilbert's word play was at genius level and Sullivan was an excellent melodist and a superb orchestrator. One only has to listen to his non-operetta music to realise that.

That's about it really.

[MickyD]

Micky, you're response to aeolium is much better than mine!

My first exposure to theatre & musical theatre (by which I also incliude opera) was 'Patience' performed by the local amateur society, when I was about 10. It didn't put me off opera, though!

My next encounter with G&S was a school production of 'Pirates' when I helped with scenery painting & so on - I had rather a 'pash' on the Ralph Rackstraw . I wonder waht happened to him?

Flosshilde, well, lucky you having had that 'pash' for a member of your cast - would that our respective Nanki-Poo had had the same effect on me!

[Barbirollians]

Yes is the answer to this thread !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes is the answer to this thread !

That's odd. I thought it was "no".

[french frank]

What is equidistant between Yes and No?

Edit: Actually, on a numerical/measurable/probability basis, I think the answer has to be No

[Prommer]

If they were all right by Mackerras, then they are all right by me.

[hmvman]

Just to follow up on the discussion about the 1957 Mikado recording, there was a D'Oyly Carte recording for Decca that same year. It appears that although the Cartes had the rights to British performance of G&S (these rights expired in 1961), there was a loophole that permitted recording and Sargent took advantage of this using operatic artists. The D'Oyly Carte Decca recording was also on two LPs and the stereo issues were SKL 4006/7. The cast was as follows:

The Mikado Donald Adams
Nanki-Poo Thomas Round
Ko-Ko Peter Pratt
Pooh-Bah Kenneth Sandford
Pish-Tush Alan Styler
Go-To Owen Grundy
Yum-Yum Jean Hindmarsh
Pitti-Sing Beryl Dixon
Peep-Bo Jennifer Toye
Katisha Ann Drummond-Grant
New Symphony Orchestra of London
D'Oyly Carte Opera Chorus
Conductor: Isidore Godfrey

Recorded at Kingsway Hall
October 1957. More about these recordings here http://gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/mik1957.htm

Personally, I love this recording and much prefer it to the 1973 recording which is the one that Decca always re-issues (I may also be biased towards the '57 because my friend Thomas Round sings in it!). I've never really taken to Sargent's G&S either, finding his tempi rather leaden. Godfrey on the other hand, seems to me to inject life and spirit into his performances. All very much personal opinion, of course.

Unfortunately, G&S seems to attract a certain kind of 'anorak' following which also gives it a bad name, I think. I agree about G&S being spoiled by poor performances, amateur and professional. We're fortunate in York that we have a very good amateur opera company that put on a superb Yeomen of the Guard a couple of years ago and Ruddigore last year.

[Dave2002]

One G & S recording that has achieved legendary status is the 1957 D'Oyly Carte Mikado - the first stereo opera to be issued. It is claimed by many to be superior to the 1973 remake, but it has never appeared on CD (apart from an Eloquence CD of highlights). Can anyone here shed any light on this performance?

I am coming back to umslopogas - who clearly didn't read the details here which refer to the 1957 D'Oyly Carte Mikado. Sargent's recording was not AFAIK a D'Oyly Carte production, but, as has already been observed with the Pro Arte Orchestra and Glyndebourne Festival Chorus.

Thanks also to hmvman for giving the details.

Here are photos of SKL4006 and 4007 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/5525895336/

PS: Someone is selling 4006 on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GILBERT-SULLIV...41270412249224 - not sure if 4007 is also available from that source. The photo of the back shows some of the details and confirms what has already been mentioned, though the copyright seems to be 1958 rather than 1957. That doesn't mean the recording wasn't made in 1957 though.

4006 and 4007 also appear to be available - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SKL-4006-7-ED1...76371565829281

[umslopogaas]

Dave 2002 posts 40 and 55

Apologies, you are right, I'm getting confused. The details I gave for ASD 256/7 are correct, but the performance is by the Glyndebourne Festival Chorus and Pro Arte O., not the D'Oyly Carte company. I dont know the Decca D'Oyly Carte version (I'm not really much of a G&S fan). Regarding values, I'm afraid my price guide only does Decca LXT, SXL and SET, not the SKL series, so I cant help. I have seen those LPs in a dealer's shop, he wasnt asking very much for them (maybe a tenner for the two).

[vinteuil]

J
Unfortunately, G&S seems to attract a certain kind of 'anorak' following .

..messages #54 and #55?

[hmvman]

..messages #54 and #55?

Well, I might admit to being a records anorak but not a G&S one - I just like the music!

[Dave2002]

..messages #54 and #55?

Rubbish and balderdash!

I've not played those LPs for at least a decade. I have played in G and S, but I fear that was over 40 years ago - Ruddigore and Yeomen of the Guard.

Nevertheless, I think that in very small doses the music can be fun/pleasant to listen to. Despite that, I've not ever seen a commercial production, though I was sad to realise over the weekend that another year has gone by without my seeing ENO's Mikado, which I have heard might be entertaining.

[Don Basilio]

Patience at the proms with Charles Mackerras in 2009 (?) was lovely.