Parsifal, ENO

[Quarky]

Looking at the eno website, Parsifal is now to all intents and purposes a sell out, unless one is prepared to sit where the surtitles cannot be viewed.

Absence of surtitles may be a significant problem, since as far as I know it is not possible to get hold of a copy of the English libretto - certainly it was not on sale in the foyer.

For myself, it did not make any difference whether the opera was sung in German or English. It's mainly monologues set to music - hardly any poetic rhymes that have to be preserved.

[Flosshilde]

For myself, it did not make any difference whether the opera was sung in German or English. It's mainly monologues set to music - hardly any poetic rhymes that have to be preserved.

Not sure that Wagner would have agreed. He called the librettos - which he wrote himself - 'poems', and, at least with the Ring, held readings before an invited audience. In German they have rhymes & rythms which are part of the musical texture. The argument for performing Wagner in German is that it preserves those rhythms, while the argument for perfroming in the vernacular is that the monologues are important to undertanding what's happening & what the characters are thinking.

[Quarky]

I really ought to look before I leap - I see there is an English libretto available on the internet, which looks like the one used.

[Mandryka]

Not sure that Wagner would have agreed. He called the librettos - which he wrote himself - 'poems', and, at least with the Ring, held readings before an invited audience. In German they have rhymes & rythms which are part of the musical texture. The argument for performing Wagner in German is that it preserves those rhythms, while the argument for perfroming in the vernacular is that the monologues are important to undertanding what's happening & what the characters are thinking.

An old argument, I know, but I've yet to attend a performance where I could actually hear the words being sung - and I've sat in all parts of the house.

See above for my comments re, the 'translation' used: not being able to understand it may be a huge blessing.

I'm definitely one of the anti-translation brigade, btw: Wagner in English sounds horribly pompous and empty - take away the 'stabreim' and it's revealed for what it is: just very mediocre stuff, the scribblings of a poetaster spewing out semi-digested bits of Schopenhauer and Escenbach.

[ostuni]

An old argument, I know, but I've yet to attend a performance where I could actually hear the words being sung - and I've sat in all parts of the house.

See above for my comments re, the 'translation' used: not being able to understand it may be a huge blessing.

I'm definitely one of the anti-translation brigade, btw: Wagner in English sounds horribly pompous and empty - take away the 'stabreim' and it's revealed for what it is: just very mediocre stuff, the scribblings of a poetaster spewing out semi-digested bits of Schopenhauer and Escenbach.

I think you'd have heard Tomlinson's words: certainly from row 3 in the upper circle I didn't need the surtitles for him at all (the other singers' diction was more variable). FWIW, I think Wagner had rather abandoned Stabreim (that rather obsessive brand of alliteration prevalent in the Ring) for this final libretto of his. You still miss the actual sounds of German, of course - but so much of Parsifal's Acts I & III is taken up by the sort of narrative that Flosshilde alludes to, and given Tomlinson's wonderful clarity (his character, Gurnemanz, is the one who does all the narration), this gave a real sense of immediacy to the production.

[Richard Tarleton]

take away the 'stabreim' and it's revealed for what it is: just very mediocre stuff, the scribblings of a poetaster spewing out semi-digested bits of Schopenhauer and Escenbach.

Mandryka - you've lost me on Escenbach, but I have to say the name does not appear in the index of Bryan Magee's "Wagner and Philosophy". Can you please elaborate, with chapter and verse?

As for Schopenhauer, Wagner discovered him before he wrote his last three librettos - Tristan, Meistersinger and Parsifal. He read "The World as Will and Representation" in autumn 1854. The remainder of the poems, including of course the Ring, were written long years before. Again, can you give examples of "semi-digested bits of Schopenhauer" in those three operas? Schopenhauer had an overwhelming effect on Wagner's philosophy, true, but that's a far cry from claimimng that the poems are "semi-digested bits...." - surely?

[Richard Tarleton]

By the way - I saw the WNO's Tristan with Anne Evans back in 1993, and agree it was a great production - they're reviving it in 2012. The 2006 revival was less good - the production was a little frayed, the torches in Act 2 went out too early....My very first Wagner was a Goodall Siegfried 40 years ago or so....

[Mandryka]

Mandryka - you've lost me on Escenbach, but I have to say the name does not appear in the index of Bryan Magee's "Wagner and Philosophy". Can you please elaborate, with chapter and verse?

As for Schopenhauer, Wagner discovered him before he wrote his last three librettos - Tristan, Meistersinger and Parsifal. He read "The World as Will and Representation" in autumn 1854. The remainder of the poems, including of course the Ring, were written long years before. Again, can you give examples of "semi-digested bits of Schopenhauer" in those three operas? Schopenhauer had an overwhelming effect on Wagner's philosophy, true, but that's a far cry from claimimng that the poems are "semi-digested bits...." - surely?

Sorry - should have been clearer: but I don't think Wagner himself is terribly clear. I don't think he was the greatest proseltiser of Schopenhauer's ideas (and A.S. was himself no admirer of Wagner's music). Wolfram von Eschenbach (sp) wrote the ballad on which Wagner vaguely based his opera.

I love the music, but I think producers struggle to do things with the first half of Act 1, in particular. Gurnemanz is given so much what we would today call 'info-dumping' that it's difficult to make it theatrically effective, imo.

[Richard Tarleton]

Ah, that Eschenbach, thank you.

Again what you say needs a little unpicking - Schopenhauer's dates were 1788-1860. We know he was not impressed when Wagner sent him the poem of the Ring in 1854 (by which time he was already quite old), but I'm not sure that we know what opportunities Schopenhauer had to listen to Wagner's music. I'm not aware of the evidence as to what if anything he thought about it, but the only operas he could possibly have seen and heard were the early three and Dutchman, Lohengrin and Tannhauser. It's possible he never heard a note of Wagner's music.

[Simon B]

A mundane question this, and maybe a bit of a longshot at this late stage, but...

If there's anyone who's already attended one of the recent performances and can remember fairly accurately what time it ended (and which performance it was so I can work out the start time, hence duration) I'd much appreciate the info.

I'm going to the performance tomorrow (27th Feb) and have worked out that my journey home is looking a bit high risk. That's high risk in the sense of missing the last train home (21:37) and having to walk the streets of London until 05:30 on Monday morning! I nearly got caught out in similar fashion (literally by a margin of 2 minutes) by a discrepancy between the original published and actual runtimes of the ROH Tannhauser in December and so am now a bit wary! Thanks in advance to anyone who does reply.

[Flosshilde]

Simon, I thought you must have the date wrong as it's a Sunday, but I've just looked at the ENO website & am staggered to see that they are perfroming on a Sunday!

[BetweenTheStaves]

You can put me also very firmly in the anti-translation camp. I loathe opera being sung in anything other than it's original language. English 'translations' sound trite.

[Bert Coules]

English 'translations' sound trite.

And a huge number of original opera libretti do not?

[DracoM]

AAMOI, what do you think a modern audience's reaction to Wieland Wagner's 1950's design and production style would be? If they didn't know the provenance?

[tsuji-giri]

I went on Sunday and was mystified by the production! No Grail in sight; a spear that looked like an offcut from a curtain rail, Amfortas looking like Spider Man, and a length of railway track. The most perverse of the sets I'd say was the totally bizarre opening of Act II. Klingsor was kitted out like a Tudor lady at the court of Henry VIII, which caused me some problems too.
I do wish the ENO would break away from its fixation with productions that simply fly in the face of the opera libretto. It was a warning I suppose that the production was described as 'iconic'.
The music was OK though.