HARDtalk

[Sydney Grew]

About 90% of the population of the UK . . .

Yes but surely they don't count. We would be in a pretty pickle if we had to consider that lot all the time.

[ahinton]

Yes but surely they don't count. We would be in a pretty pickle if we had to consider that lot all the time.

Would we indeed? Were 90% of those who are supposed to pay the BBC licence fee declined to do so, what price any of the programmes then? In such circumstances, we certainly would all be in what you quaintly term "a pretty pickle!

[jean]

Sarah Montague's 'interview' with Thomas Hampson last week has caused comment on the other side of the Atlantic, as well as this side:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/blogs/operavore/2013/aug/02/thomas-hampson-hot-seat-hardtalk/

"Montague made the mistake of using the trite gambit of referring to opera as elitist..."

Actually, she said elite, not elitist. Isn't there a difference?

[french frank]

Actually, she said elite, not elitist. Isn't there a difference?

I think so. Though since she was clearly being somewhat disparaging, it probably did boil down to the same thing.

[ahinton]

I think so. Though since she was clearly being somewhat disparaging, it probably did boil down to the same thing.

I suspect so; there was really no evidence that she knew much about the subject beyond the prejudices with which she seemed determined to get the programme going - and, who knows (I don't, for I do not know Sarah Montague personally), perhaps she doesn't even want to know about it beyond that.

[french frank]

Although I think Hampson did very well, if they were going to interrogate a performer I would have been more interested in hearing what Pappano had to say since he is himself on record as supporting 'accessibility'. I presume Hampson was only chosen because of his appearance at the ROH.

[David-G]

Way back in my student days (late sixties) you could buy a standing ticket for the ROH for a pound. This entitled you to stand at the back of the stalls. I recall doing this for a performance of 'Gotterdammerung', but even in my healthy youth I couldnt quite stand that long, and had to sit down on the floor shortly before the end, so I missed seeing Valhalla fall.

Is it still possible to stand at the back of the stalls? I suspect modern Health and Safety rules would prohibit it.

I stood through the complete Ring at the back of the stalls circle. (And 30 years later, I stood through Gotterdammerung last weekend!) You can still get standing tickets at Covent Garden, I did so recently for La Donna del Lago - £12. And I was standing for the Rameau at Glyndebourne yesterday - £20.

[MrGongGong]

Actually, she said elite, not elitist. Isn't there a difference?

Being able to make this Spinal Tap reference shows a real musical mind at work IMV (Sexy / Sexist)

YES there's a huge difference

The seat prices red herring really gets on my nerves. No matter how many times people have the facts they refuse to believe that the ROH isn't hideously expensive ........... a bit like those who insist that "classical" music has been "removed" from A level music

[french frank]

Being able to make this Spinal Tap reference shows a real musical mind at work IMV (Sexy / Sexist)

YES there's a huge difference

The real question is not whether there is a dictionary difference, but what she was implying by the word she used.

[aeolium]

I just watched the interview and I thought Sarah Montague for the most part asked reasonable questions which Tom Hampson answered very well. It should be borne in mind by those who are not familiar with the programme that HardTalk is supposedly a tough-talking interview where the interviewee gets asked 'hard' questions, so the interviewer is to quite an extent acting as devil's advocate. I wasn't sure initially whether Montague was using the word "expensive" to describe opera as an art-form as opposed to the cost of the tickets for the public, and if it is the former then she's absolutely right: it's extremely expensive (hence the large and continuing subsidies to e.g. the ROH). But later on she did clearly suggest that the cost of the ticket might be one of the deterrent factors. Here I agree with those who say that that is a misconception - tickets to a pop concert with a well-known group or singer would certainly cost more, although I'm not sure how easily available the cheap tickets are at, say, ROH if there is a well-known singer like Terfel or Domingo performing (which would be a more appropriate comparison).

But I also think that to make the simple equation (there are cheap tickets available for the opera = it is readily accessible and not at all elitist) can also be a mistake, or at least may not be the whole story. There is the fact that it is classical music, has highly stylised singing in which it is generally not possible - even in operas sung in English - to hear all the words (unlike, say, with most pop music or musicals), is generally sung in a foreign language, often lasts a very long time, and has few opportunities for collective audience participation - compare a football match or a pop concert at Glastonbury. For those for whom the collective experience and the atmosphere is important as well as an individual one, opera doesn't necessarily fit the bill. And at least at some places opera retains the image of being class-obsessed. It might be that Glyndebourne's audience is full of Essex costermongers and Brixton road-sweepers but they are well concealed in their evening suits, picnicking on the lawns. To the casual observer it looks more like a section of the governing class at play. It's the kind of image which simply confirms the worst preconceptions (perhaps misconceptions) of people about those who like opera and the sooner that convention is abandoned the better.

That said, I agree with much of what Hampson said, and I agree that recent developments such as the easier availability of material on the internet, live broadcasting to cinemas etc may well help to break down some of the barriers to reaching a wider audience.

[amateur51]

On the issue of the cost of opera tickets, of course, if you're a convinced fan of opera, then going to see a Kaufmann or Stemme at ROH will not be 'expensive'. But if you're a Stone Roses fan, have never been to an opera, but you like those tunes in Tosca, would you rather lay out £150 for a stalls seat for Madama Buttefly at ROH or would you back a winner & use the money to go to your favourite band's next gig?

That's where the BBC's role comes in - give your man/woman a chance to hear the real thing, get stirred up by it, free! And with the advent of cinema broadcasts with great sound and HD picture, and popcorn access, who needs to spend £150?

[french frank]

In reply to aeolium, I did feel she was being a devil's advocate, voicing what were held to be the views of Joe Public.
Somewhat germane is an extract from Diane Coyle's Public Value in Practice: Restoring the ethos of public service -

"Sixteen adults were randomly selected by a research agency to represent a cross-section of the London population. At an all-day gathering they considered the question ‘What is the role of the Royal Opera House in UK society?’, which included observing a wide range of Royal Opera House work and quizzing a number of artists and executives. The ‘overwhelming’ message from the group ‘was that the passion and openness which they had experienced that day did not come across to them from [the Royal Opera House’s] usual communications’. As a direct result, the Royal Opera House reviewed and revised its ‘core imagery’.

"An indirect finding of the session, however, was that the participants had difficulty engaging with the issues as citizens. ‘Being local they veered towards a consumer mindset’. So the Royal Opera House held a second citizens’ jury later that year in a hotel in Manchester. The methodology was similar and involved 12 local people. The question this time was ‘Should Britain have a Royal Opera House?’

"This time the group had no difficulty in engaging as citizens and the findings from the day were correspondingly richer. Participants considered the Royal Opera House as a ‘national asset’ and were able to establish a connection with it through Royal Opera House individuals and their stories. They were not interested in citizen representation on the board, but they did think they had the right to know how it was run. For some of the participants ‘it was quite an emotional experience’, recalls Ms Jarratt."

Add: Interesting point - that Londoners who could more readily visit had a different attitude from the Mancunians, for whom visiting would be less easy.

[Sir Velo]

Not to overlook the intangible asset to UK plc which is high culture. A significant part of Britain's standing in the world is its cultural legacy and institutions, and a major reason for why tourists visit the UK and international organisations hold conferences/have HQs here etc. This should probably be made more of by the institutions themselves when called onto justify their existences by so called "devil's advocates".

[MrGongGong]

But I also think that to make the simple equation (there are cheap tickets available for the opera = it is readily accessible and not at all elitist) can also be a mistake, or at least may not be the whole story. There is the fact that it is classical music, has highly stylised singing in which it is generally not possible - even in operas sung in English - to hear all the words (unlike, say, with most pop music or musicals), .

hummm

Here are a couple of very popular bands (popular in the UK )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e502auOnLuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4oq7DBU8E

and so on

I'm not sure that the language that people sing in is a great barrier ...... (some other things are)

[Zucchini]

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2013/08/music-director-leads-calls-for-bbc-hard-talk-apology.html