HARDtalk

[french frank]

Sarah Montague's 'interview' with Thomas Hampson last week has caused comment on the other side of the Atlantic, as well as this side:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/blogs/operavore/2013/aug/02/thomas-hampson-hot-seat-hardtalk/

"Montague made the mistake of using the trite gambit of referring to opera as elitist. Why would a journalist, especially one for the mighty BBC, want to adopt an anti-intellectual stance? Whom is she speaking for when she says this? She said that the issue of elitism would come from someone who feels “a psychological barrier to opera—that it’s not for people like me."

[cloughie]

Sarah Montague's 'interview' with Thomas Hampson last week has caused comment on the other side of the Atlantic, as well as this side:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/blogs/operavore/2013/aug/02/thomas-hampson-hot-seat-hardtalk/

"Montague made the mistake of using the trite gambit of referring to opera as elitist. Why would a journalist, especially one for the mighty BBC, want to adopt an anti-intellectual stance? Whom is she speaking for when she says this? She said that the issue of elitism would come from someone who feels “a psychological barrier to opera—that it’s not for people like me."

I don't think that elitism comes into it for many people its more of not being that keen on the sound and most of it is in a foreign language - after 50+ years of listening to music there is still much opera that I do not particularly like and some of the voices that are employed in it may be technically good, though to my ears over-vibrato-laden, or just don't sound particularly pleasant - I don't wish to listen to stuff which hurts my ears, whether it is opera, rap. minimalist or whatever - I'll give anything a try but switch off if I'm not keen. I also think that Ms Montague is of the generation who have not generally embraced classical music and probably were not exposed to it at school in the way that some of us wrinklies were. Celebrity university Challenge and Mastermind often reveal an ignorance of classical music in the under 50s!

[salymap]

And in 'Eggheads' the visiting team, often consisting of highly educated people, seem oddly proud if they don't know their Beethoven from their Brahms and opera never does very well either.

I can't see the R4 Breakfast team caring much for music,with the exception of James Naughtie.

Radio 3 is for weirdos

[Anna]

I don't generally 'do' opera, There are a few I'm very fond of: Shosta's Lady M; Henze's L'Upupa und der Triumph der Sohnesliebe; Massenet, etc., but generally - particularly The Met - I don't bother with with the full works, just the bits and pieces (overtures and arias)
I wonder if the accusation of elitism comes from the skyhigh prices at the ROH and how it used to be that you dressed to the nines to attend therefore only Toffs could afford it? Plus, of course, it's in a foreign language so unless you have a libretto you're lost - but then, just go with the flow and you can soon suss out what the action is.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder if the accusation of elitism comes from the skyhigh prices at the ROH

Cheapest tickets for ROH Elektra = £6. (Other prices are £9, £19 and £25.)

Cheapest seats to see Arsenal FC = £26.

I know people believe that Opera is expensive, but decent seat prices are cheaper than for more "popular" entertainments.

[salymap]

I and my friends attended the ROH often years ago and, if the Stalls were for the wealthy and business parties, the remainder seemed quite friendly
I suppose I was lucky to be given tickets sometimes but I paid for quite a good seat high up at the side [not correct name I'm sure] to see Fidelio, The Flying Dutchman and one or two others.

I saw operaa by Britten, Walton, Tippett and I'd rather sit through those operas than Wagner's Ring any day.

Runs for cover...........

[Anna]

I know people believe that Opera is expensive, but decent seat prices are cheaper than for more "popular" entertainments.

I think people look at the 'best' seats at £125 and think apart from that they have to get dressed up in a tux or an evening dress .... it's the image opera has. Actually, if I lived in London I admit I'd go to see if I could love opera if it cost me less than a tenner.

[umslopogaas]

Way back in my student days (late sixties) you could buy a standing ticket for the ROH for a pound. This entitled you to stand at the back of the stalls. I recall doing this for a performance of 'Gotterdammerung', but even in my healthy youth I couldnt quite stand that long, and had to sit down on the floor shortly before the end, so I missed seeing Valhalla fall.

Is it still possible to stand at the back of the stalls? I suspect modern Health and Safety rules would prohibit it.

[french frank]

I wonder if the accusation of elitism comes from the skyhigh prices at the ROH and how it used to be that you dressed to the nines to attend therefore only Toffs could afford it?

But why do people think that? As the man said in the article:

"To which I would add that there are many fine companies in Europe and the Americas whose price scale is not as high as we think. Also, let us remember that the cheapest full-view seats in opera houses in America are typically lower in price than the least good seats for Broadway shows, rock concerts and professional sports events."

I imagine *average* prices at the ROH sound expensive because the top prices are 'sky high' and they raise the average. But if the cheapest seats are cheap, then it's not expensive. You can shell out as little or as much as you want to.

[Simon B]

The article linked to is more considered and less self-defeating IMO than much of the fuming commentary that's been stirred up (e.g. on Stormin' Norman Lebrecht's blog thingy) by this episode of the rather obscure HardTalk. For a start, the author gives every indication of having actually watched the whole discussion prior to engaging fulmination mode...

That said (and acknowledging that the author is seeing things through the different cultural lens of the USA) I worry anytime I see something like:

"Montague made the mistake of using the trite gambit of referring to opera as elitist. Why would a journalist, especially one for the mighty BBC, want to adopt an anti-intellectual stance? Whom is she speaking for when she says this?

It's obvious to me who she is speaking for: About 90% of the population of the UK, particularly anyone born after about 1960. Not just in terms of perplexity or ambivalence, but outright hostility, sometimes pretty visceral. They might be wrong, but when was the last time that made a jot of difference to anything?

Given the point of HardTalk (and there's a pretty unsubtle clue in the name), i.e. to proceed from a deliberately and perhaps melodramatically confrontational stance, what else could be expected? Context is all, as ever. The basic proposition reflects the entrenched view of a big chunk of the population.

Personally, I think smashing your head violently against a wall until consciousness slinks dejectedly away is likely to be a more producitve passtime than trying to convert all bar a small proportion to a different perspective on this issue. However, if you're going to have a go, getting the likes of the thoughtful and articulate Hampson to good-naturedly rebuff this stuff is at least less counterproductive than the apparently preferred alternative. Viz, reinforcing the concensus view that the continued existence of any live opera (or classical music generally for that matter) is an establishment stitchup by bursting with outrage at the effrontery of anyone taking a pop at it, demanding Tony Hall marches down to give Ms Montague a good thrashing, and so-on...

[salymap]

And if they still havethose wonderful curtains and pinky/red lights, the atmosphere when the curtains open and the lights go down beats the RAH,RFH or anywhere for a thrill up the spine, musical experience.In London anyway

[french frank]

I by no means share the indignation - but the writer also says:

"It is very rare to have someone in the arts, especially a performer rather than an executive, appear on such a program to, in effect, defend the worth and validity of the art form they work in."

Instead of 'demanding Tony Hall marches down to give Ms Montague a good thrashing', it would have been quite interesting to see what he made of SM's questions in the hot seat himself.

[Simon B]

Instead of 'demanding Tony Hall marches down to give Ms Montague a good thrashing', it would have been quite interesting to see what he made of SM's questions in the hot seat himself.

This is a good point, though you would maybe agree with me that we broadly know the answer. Namely, that the DG would have attempted (and probably succeeded in) taking a more confrontational approach back, and demolishing the more substantive/quantifiable elements that ostensibly form the basis of the standard "it's elitist" line. I.e., all the usual stuff about ticket prices, audience demographics, outreach work etc.

Surely nothing less would be expected from him given his previous job? But then, his CV gives him credibility only in preaching to the converted, and would very likely have the opposite effect on the visceral objectors. "He would say that wouldn't he?" He's very much part of "the establishment" for these purposes.

My personal view is that the ticket prices issue is (now at least) a bit of marginal red-herring. Most of the people they deter from attending are already somewhat predisposed towards the idea. The roots of the image problem the whole scene has are much more deep-seated than that, and include manifestations of the deeply ingrained (and again, sometimes really quite visceral) anti-intellectualism of UK society, vestiges of resentment of the class system etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, as a regular attender of WNO, ENO, Opera North and, yes, Covent Garden most of the charge of "elitism" looks like being a load of foetid dingo's kidneys (to borrow a phrase) to me. Nevertheless, challenging the preconceptions seems to be like trying to convince people that gravity will start acting as a repulsive force from next Tuesday. I reckon that admitting to some bizarrely complex and deviant proclivity would be less bother in the average workplace than confessing to a fondness for the opera, though obviously I've only experimented with the latter option!

[french frank]

I must listen (sorry, watch ) the thing again because I think Hampson had some rather good points to make here - which would have sounded even better if they'd been in rather more sympathetic surroundings. Yes, Hall would attract a 'Well, he would say that' response now - but his point about bringing the productions into cinemas fitted beautifully with Hampson's point about making art forms 'available' to everyone who is curious. The job, then, is not to make the content itself more 'accessible' but to make people more curious. Certain parallels here ...

Anna, I was PM'd after lunch about this policy of removing the new pieces, so I genuinely wasn't sure if I understood what was happening. But we don't yet know the programme for the 'new music' broadcast, I presume.

[Petrushka]

Anna, I was PM'd after lunch about this policy of removing the new pieces, so I genuinely wasn't sure if I understood what was happening. But we don't yet know the programme for the 'new music' broadcast, I presume.

Probably gone off topic but given the date of the broadcast (August 18) and those pieces of new music so far excluded from the relevant TV broadcasts my guess is that we'd get the Lachenmann, David Matthews, Colin Matthews and Ades works. Looking at the timings in the Proms guide gives us around 2 hours of music which would fit just nicely into the schedule.