Owen Wingrave

[ardcarp]

I had another go at listening to this today (Afternoon on 3 at 2pm) I last saw it at its TV debut in 1971, and I recall having to make myself go through with it and ending up disappointed. I was already a devotee of Grimes, The Rape of L.(which I saw Britten conduct) and The Turn of the S... not to mention a Midsummer ND. I have to confess that not much had changed and I didn't last more than half an hour today.

I wonder if putting one of Britten's less approachable operas on radio is really a good way of celebrating the centenary?

And maybe Mary C could chip in and give us her opinions about Owen Wingrave?

And should I have posted this under A Night at the Opera? Thanks for moving it here

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Britten's Owen Wingrave

I was listening to Radio 3 this afternoon, and I thought "this sounds like a Britten opera, but I don't recognise it. So I switched the car radio from FM to DAB to view the radio text (one of the few merits of DAB).
It said:
"Penny Gore presents Britten's Owen Wingrave"
Not a mention of the conductor (the real presenter) or the performers. Knowing that the announcer's name is about as relevant as knowing what colour socks Owen Wingrave was wearing before putting on his costume.

As for the performance itself, I switched it on too late for the majority of it, but I was slightly put off by some excessive wobble. I must dig out the first ever recording in the Britten Conducts Britten box.

[JimD]

There have been exchanges about Owen Wingrave here before. Generally I enjoy Britten operas, both intellectually and musically, if I may make that distinction. This is the exception. The music I still enjoy, but the cardboard cutout characters (Coyle is perhaps the exception) render it like a piece of pacifist propaganda. I even wondered whether Britten was still suffering from suppressed guilt, or at least strongly conflicted ethical judgements, following his trip to Germany after World War II. I have never read James' novella, and must get round to doing so.

[ardcarp]

the cardboard cutout characters

Yes, I think that is my main problem with it. But I wonder if Britten was trying too hard to keep his musical language [what he perceived as] up to date? As others did (e.g. Copland, R-R Bennett, Stravinsky) he possibly felt that serialism was a force to be dabbled with. But Britten was IMHO a melodist with a strong sense of tonal centres. So dipping his toe in the water was...well...less than successful.

[Mary Chambers]

I listened, but I still don't like it. It just doesn't have the subtlety of other Britten operas. It is indeed propaganda, though I don't object to that in itself. This was a reduced score made by David Bedford, so it wasn't quite the real thing. The excellent Jacques Imbrailo sang Owen, very well I thought, and Toby Spence was the Narrator.

I spent the time identifying bits similar to bits of other Britten operas. There are plenty of them - Midsummer Night's Dream, Peter Grimes, Rape of Lucretia, and even Death in Venice, which Britten had yet to compose, are all in there.

[RobertLeDiable]

I listened, but I still don't like it. It just doesn't have the subtlety of other Britten operas. It is indeed propaganda, though I don't object to that in itself. This was a reduced score made by David Bedford, so it wasn't quite the real thing. The excellent Jacques Imbrailo sang Owen, very well I thought, and Toby Spence was the Narrator.

I spent the time identifying bits similar to bits of other Britten operas. There are plenty of them - Midsummer Night's Dream, Peter Grimes, Rape of Lucretia, and even Death in Venice, which Britten had yet to compose, are all in there.

No, the chamber orchestra arrangement was by David Matthews - and very effectively done it was too. I don't think that makes it not quite the real thing - arguably it works better than the full orchestra original. I agree that the opera's weakness lies in its shallow characterisation; as others have said, it's the ideology that seemed to matter to Britten and the characters are to some extent there to pin the ideas on. But I think it's a bit glib to dismiss the music as merely derivative of Britten's other operas. There's plenty of marvellous writing in it, and my impression is that most Britten experts nowadays recognise it as a better piece than it was first thought to be. This was an excellent, highly dramatic performance - as good as any it's likely to get I should have thought.

[ardcarp]

...whatever its musical and dramatic merits, wasn't Afternoon on 3 a very strange place to put it? It was, after all, conceived as a TV opera. I might have stuck with it if I'd had a score and/or libretto to hand. As it was, I, as a Britten fan...a Britten opera fan even...found it difficult listening. I do wonder how many folk out there were tuned in literally and metaphorically.

[Mary Chambers]

No, the chamber orchestra arrangement was by David Matthews - and very effectively done it was too. I don't think that makes it not quite the real thing - arguably it works better than the full orchestra original. I agree that the opera's weakness lies in its shallow characterisation; as others have said, it's the ideology that seemed to matter to Britten and the characters are to some extent there to pin the ideas on. But I think it's a bit glib to dismiss the music as merely derivative of Britten's other operas.

Ah, sorry. I've been known to confuse the Bedford brothers and the Matthews brothers before.

I didn't see the music as derivative, exactly, just full of Britten fingerprints - which I enjoyed identifying.

I think I've heard that the original television production will be shown some time this year. I have it on DVD, and find it more convincing than I expected, given that Britten himself didn't like it much, and I'm not keen on the opera in the first place.

[JimD]

One can get a flavour of its dark, claustrophobic atmosphere on this Youtube clip.

[ardcarp]

the original television production will be shown some time this year.

Well that seems a more sensible outing for O.W.

I wonder if there are any plans to repeat that sensational performance of The War Requiem that came from Coventry Cathedral last year?

[VodkaDilc]

Well that seems a more sensible outing for O.W.

I wonder if there are any plans to repeat that sensational performance of The War Requiem that came from Coventry Cathedral last year?

It's on DVD and Blueray.

As regards Owen W, I did not enjoy the first TV performance (surrounded by other students, not all of them musicians), but have since come to rate it highly.

[RobertLeDiable]

Well that seems a more sensible outing for O.W.

I wonder if there are any plans to repeat that sensational performance of The War Requiem that came from Coventry Cathedral last year?

More sensible? No - I don't think so. The whole idea of writing it specifically for TV was misconceived, which is probably why it's never been produced for TV again. It didn't work (arguably opera is never as effective on TV as it is in the theatre), but it does work as a staged opera, albeit with the caveat that the characterisation isn't generally as deep or convincing as in Britten's other mature operas.

[VodkaDilc]

Well that seems a more sensible outing for O.W.

Didn't arcarp mean more sensible than radio?

[RobertLeDiable]

Didn't arcarp mean more sensible than radio?

Maybe. But by and large I'd rather listen to a good performance than watch a TV production. Obviously a live staging would be better than that. Actually I think I may have seen a more recent TV film of it - was it conducted by Hickox? - but I don't find operas filmed on location (usually with dubbed voices) at all engaging.

[JimD]

The whole idea of writing it specifically for TV was misconceived... It didn't work...

Would you care to expand?