NMC Appeal

[Simon]

"One" chooses"? Yes, your weak and puerile attempt at a defence sounds as thought there is in reality only "one" charitable donor who is faced with the difficult and painful decision as to whether to give a homeless person a square meal or help to fund recordings of Barrett and Birtwistle (or Elgar)...

You made the hole. You put yourself in it. Do please stop digging.

Alistair. You lost the argument a long time ago. Follow the logic. What you give to one charity you cannot give again to another. So for those of us with limited funds, a choice has to be made. I don't choose the NMC. If you do, that's fine by me. Just don't try to dress it up as a cause equally as deserving as the homeless. Because it isn't.

[Bryn]

Alistair. You lost the argument a long time ago. Follow the logic. What you give to one charity you cannot give again to another. So for those of us with limited funds, a choice has to be made. I don't choose the NMC. If you do, that's fine by me. Just don't try to dress it up as a cause equally as deserving as the homeless. Because it isn't.

Simon, wake up and smell the coffee, You have never 'won' an argument here. Principally because you never put one of any real merit forward, whether the topic be music or politics.

[MrGongGong]

Simon, wake up and smell the coffee, You have never 'won' an argument here. Principally because you never put one of any real merit forward, whether the topic be music or politics.

as Lemmy said ?

[Simon]

Simon, wake up and smell the coffee, You have never 'won' an argument here.

From you, that's rich!

But I see you have been supported by GongGong! Oh no! All this intellectual skill ranged against me...

[Bryn]

From you, that's rich!

But I see you have been supported by GongGong! Oh no! All this intellectual skill ranged against me...

I engage in discussions here to participate in a mutual learning process, not the 'win' or 'lose'. Most others here do likewise, often through robust argument. You might gain a modicum of respect here if you adopted a similar approach.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I hope for your sake that you don't happen to meet up with Colin Matthews on a dark night in an alley somewhere...

Ooh, I don't know - that's a gig I'd give good money to see!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh well, a simple recommendation there. I had somehow missed the release of Mr Barrett's Dark Matter CD.

I bought mine from Forsyth's stall at the Huddersfield Festival. To quote Stravinsky: "Wow!"

[Simon]

Ooh, I don't know - that's a gig I'd give good money to see!

Somehow, I think he'd struggle...

That apart, do you really believe that the CD I referred to earlier is good music? I mean, really, deep down, honestly and sincerely? Worthy of a place alongside Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Brahms...?

[Bryn]

I bought mine from Forsyth's stall at the Huddersfield Festival. To quote Stravinsky: "Wow!"

I was only able to get up there for the Feldman (well most of it. Had to leave before the end to get the 23:05 coach back to London ), and no such CD was in evidence there at the time.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That apart, do you really believe that the CD I referred to earlier is good music? I mean, really, deep down, honestly and sincerely? Worthy of a place alongside Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Brahms...?

If you mean Sir Harrison's (ceased being "Mr Birtwistle" about 20 years ago) Gawain, then, yes, I do. I know that you find that difficult to believe (you've expressed such difficulty frequently before) but it is nonetheless true. It is superbly constructed, magnificently timed and overwhelming in its stark bleakness. I can hear "now with a single step, your journey begins", "I'm not that hero", "Ride North!" ringing out through Covent Garden to this day. And it was the first score I saw in manuscript before hearing the work: the surge of excitement when the opening bars were as I'd "heard" them can still get me going.

Worth letting someone starve for? No; but then I don't think that's true of Beethoven, Schubert, Bach, Mozart, Brahms either. Nor of any of the books and CDs for which I've parted with (lots of) money. And as for this computer!

Of course, if we had a Tax system less geared towards rewarding the greedy ...

[ahinton]

Alistair. You lost the argument a long time ago.

There was no argument other than the one that you tried but failed to put forward. Many individuals, many corporations, many governmental institutions put funds into all manner of projects. Accept this.

Follow the logic. What you give to one charity you cannot give again to another. So for those of us with limited funds, a choice has to be made.

Again, you seem to present this as though only one or a handful of people will make charitable donations to any organisation; how absurd is that?!

I don't choose the NMC. If you do, that's fine by me. Just don't try to dress it up as a cause equally as deserving as the homeless. Because it isn't.

I do nothing of the kind. It is an entirely different cause. If you cannot see that, I can do nothing for you.

[ahinton]

I engage in discussions here to participate in a mutual learning process, not the 'win' or 'lose'. Most others here do likewise, often through robust argument. You might gain a modicum of respect here if you adopted a similar approach.

Hear, hear! I have much to learn, too. Trying to learn what there is involves listening - even to the "arguments" that Simon puts forward on occasion...

[ahinton]

Somehow, I think he'd struggle...

With what?...

That apart, do you really believe that the CD I referred to earlier is good music? I mean, really, deep down, honestly and sincerely? Worthy of a place alongside Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Brahms...?

I'd not realised that any of those were British composers of the kind that NMC was set up to promote and represent.

It doesn't especially matter in any case what I personally believe in this context, any more that it would do in an instance in which you appear to wish to choose to be as selective in your approach to charitable donations as to prompt you to determine which particular homeless citizen you might have fed at your behest and which not. "Disgusting"? (to quote you)...er - yes!

[ahinton]

If you mean Sir Harrison's (ceased being "Mr Birtwistle" about 20 years ago) Gawain, then, yes, I do. I know that you find that difficult to believe (you've expressed such difficulty frequently before) but it is nonetheless true. It is superbly constructed, magnificently timed and overwhelming in its stark bleakness. I can hear "now with a single step, your journey begins", "I'm not that hero", "Ride North!" ringing out through Covent Garden to this day. And it was the first score I saw in manuscript before hearing the work: the surge of excitement when the opening bars were as I'd "heard" them can still get me going.

Worth letting someone starve for? No; but then I don't think that's true of Beethoven, Schubert, Bach, Mozart, Brahms either.

And nor would any of them, of course! The very idea that one of NMC's more recent appeals for financial support might intentionally or even unintentionally risk depriving a homeless person a square meal is not merely absurd but also as disgusting and patronising as Simon's remarks. I'm sorry; that sounds very rude and I hate to appear rude to anyone - but I really do not know quite what else to say in this context...

[MrGongGong]

but I really do not know quite what else to say in this context...

I do but some are far too sensitive I fear