Spot on there, a51!
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Fiona Maddocks in the Observer Sunday 30 September
Susan Bullock, in her first complete cycle for the ROH and not a minute too soon, has extraordinary power, her voice ringing out from upstage even when her back is turned to us. She radiates tender emotion in every gesture, essential but by no means a given for this archetypal Wagner heroine.Comment
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Interesting - and I was also interested by Bill's comments re. the defects not being so apparent where he was sitting. I daresay Fiona M was sitting near the front - she obviously wasn't in the amphitheatre to make comments like that. I agree re the tender moments - for example, Ruhe, ruhe, du Gott was very moving - but she just didn't cut it in the ROH. My previous ROH G'Dammerung Brunhildes by way of comparison are Anne Evans, Deborah Polaski and Lisa Gasteen (plus a couple of stand-ins for illness).Originally posted by Alison View Post
In spite of Siegfried and Brunhilde both being slightly off the pace it was a great live cycle and operatic experience, well worth the travel and expense!Comment
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Could you tell us why you found it a 'great live cycle'?
The R3 commentary tried at some length to convey the set deigns etc not entirely with success, but I am wondering if anyone can give us details of the way the production was designed and set? The R3 website has some pix, but they don't really add up to a coherent picture of a design for me. For example, Donald Macleod made a remark to the effect that lots of things tilted and spun - but what did? He also said that the very last picture was of a woman standing at the base of a huge ?circle? whose topmost parts could not be seen, and a team of women emerged round this image on stage in the closing bars. The photo conveys some of that, but I am still not clear how that evolved, and indeed why/ if the final moments of Gotterdammerung might be enhanced by this image?
Sorry to be so ill-informed, but given that Kevin Warner spent a lot of time on R3 'explaining' his concept, the actual physical objects and their spatial relationship one to another or to characters / story line / themes were not quite so clear.
Have to say, I slightly preferred to imagine Brodgar as I listened, but that would be too frightfully passe and Weiland Wagner!!Comment
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KEITH WarnerComment
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The opportunity to see a live staged Ring cycle comes but rarely; and it tends to be an expensive indulgence. My first cycle for about 30 years starts tomorrow. I very much want to enjoy the experience, and for that reason I shall go charitably disposed both to the singers and to the production. I shall do my best not to mind a little wobble, if Brunnhilde manages overall to create a good musico-dramatic impression. Likewise, although I know that there are many aspects of the production style which I absolutely hate, I shall do my best to compartmentalise my reaction, so as not to let these sillinesses spoil my enjoyment of the whole.
And at any live Ring cycle there is a buzz, an excitement, a festival atmosphere.
Perhaps other audience members go in a like frame of mind; and perhaps this may account to some extent for the difference in reaction between those attending the operas "live" and those listening on the radio.Last edited by David-G; 26-10-12, 01:17.Comment
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Draco, I was referring mainly to the experience of a live Ring, mostly well sung and superbly played, an absorbing journey, the intensity of the shared experience, etc....Originally posted by DracoM View Post
I have not heard or read Keith Warner's explanations, and some things are still sinking in, but some ideas were consistent and clear throughout. I took that final tableau - in the closing moments of the immolation scene - to reflect the final supremacy of man, following the destruction of the gods?
A few things seemed gratuitously lobbed in and were simply unnecessary or puzzling - for example, Alberich seemingly conducting Mengele-like experiments, the crashed plane (see my comment on the Siegfried thread) - but the degeneracy of the gods from the very start, Wotan's increasingly desperate search for answers, were obvious themes. The same spaces doubled for different scenes emphasising the interconnectedness of the various worlds... The start of Act 3 of Siegfried, where Wotan is on a rotating platform, with clouds swirling around him, as nothing seemed to provide the answers (to what would happen) that he was looking for, was particularly effective (though actually killing Erde seemed a tad extreme, and necessitated a puzzling start to the Norn scene in G'dammerung - the Norns seemed unsure what to make of it).
I'm still puzzling over the Tarnhelm/Gibichung Hall link, complete with the same broken window/pane, and may yet read what Warner has to say.
But it was a great experience. At the first curtain call at G'dammerung I thought the orchestra had gone home (it was late) but it was very fitting then to have them on stage taking their call with the singers. I didn't get JT's "hamminess" which some have referred to - I thought his Hunding and Hagen were nicely differentiated from eachother and each the embodiment of evil.
I think David-G captures the point perfectly. This was an experience to be had live. I've no idea what I would have made of it on the radio. Good luck David!Comment
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Many thanks.
The crashed plane image rather defeated me too. Did you have any further thoughts on that? An Icarus for our day?
Warner seemed to suggest that that final image at the very close of Gotterdammerung was rather more specifically female than generically 'man'.
Q: can you actually 'kill' an Erde figure -life force etc? Or was that the point to emphasise the Gods appalling lack of responsibility?Comment
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(Started this last night)
A study of the myths, the texts created by Wagner etc will have to wait until I retire I'm afraid. But I seized the opportunity to experience The Ring, live, and, as in all live opera performance, there are likely to be weak links, its a perilous enterprise involving so many (fallible) participants. So whilst I didn't greatly enjoy the capped nasal quality of Vinke's voice or the significant aspects in which Susan Bullock is insufficient, experienced live I could find so much else, including in their performsnces, that left me positive about the whole experience. So whilst sitting listening at home, its all too easy, for example, to judge Tomlinson as in the latter stage of his career, and hamming it up - live he projects iimpressive stage and vocal presence - a great perfomer (the impression he made as Wotan last time around will not leave me, Terfel this time). There were other great performances too (which have been commented on). I have a great problem with radio broadcasts - they contain all the grainy flaws that would be left on the cutting room floor of a commercial recording, and don't, despite all efforts, provide a good sound to reproduce - perhaps for the best in front of the best equipment, if you have it.. If I was trying to interest a newcomer to opera, I would strive to prevent them listening to a radio broadcast, and for that matter commercial recordings - live performance (ncluding concert performance) has to have the truest experience. I listen to recordings (yes, incluuding some historic live performances) but I have come to think they are acceptable, for me, because they somehow re-kindle the experience - the impact and involvement of hearing the piece, or opera, live.
I haven't heard the commentary with the BBC broadcasts, and I will probably be corrected in what I am abut to say. As I understand it, the world conceived by Wagner is one of the Gods esconced in Valhalla , earth dwellers enslaved by giants or the likes of the Gibichungs, or taken down into the depths by the race of evil Dwarves (these "levels" - hence the ladders in the set). As we all know, the actions involving all 3 dominant races are depraved, brutish and repugnant. At the close of Gotterdamering, we see the death of the Gods, and for me the actors, young people, in their white T shirts, signify freed humanity - corrupt influences no longer exercise power over them. a new beginning. I found it moving.
I do hope Daviid-G (and any others of you) due to attend the next cycle, will find it as satisfying as I did - there was always something to take in (orchestral sounds small and large - RoH orchestra were great, its obvious Pappano is so proud of them, the Gibichung chorus was thrilling, the contribution of the principals (- all the vocalists) as commented on elswhere, the set and the drama.Comment
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Great to read such a positive and enthusiastic post Stephen Smith - many thanksOriginally posted by Stephen Smith View Post
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I hope that it's a great experience, David-G and I look forward to reading your thoughts about it allOriginally posted by David-G View Post
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I was not there, I have no idea about the symbolism, the visual imagery - hence my questions. I was and still am baffled, so asked. What else can a radio-only 'spectator' do? All I have is the pix on the R3 website in which the final image of Gotterdammerung seems to be entirely female, and I was wondering why? Does Warner see Siegfried's / Wotan's / Alberich's / Hagen's failures lead to the extinction of men and commits the world after the Twilight to women? This is not a sexist inquiry - it is in the picture and I was wondering why the production had taken that line?Originally posted by JimD View Post
And Tomlinson's mighty baying voice was the best thing on show, and his portrayal of implacable, long simmering, conniving evil far and away the most characterful singing of the cycle IMO [Alberich in that company as well] , but set against the company of some principals who seemed to be just massively grateful to have got to the end roughly intact, he made a huge impression ON AIR. I don't think it's a voice in the first or even second flush but it was for me undoubtedly the voice of the evening.
And yes, totally agree, there is absolutely no sub for the live experience, warts and all, but.............I just cannot afford the price, so have to rely on radio / website pictures. Sorry to be impoverished and ignorant.Last edited by DracoM; 26-10-12, 09:37.Comment
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I don't know if this was mentioned on another thread, but the plane in Siegfried is a full-scale version of a model plane which we saw in the Nibelheim scene in Rheingold, clearly having been made for Alberich by Mime. One possible explanation is that Fafner, having taken the model with the hoard, built the plane, flew it and crashed it into the forest, where he then transformed himself and made his lair. Not sure why Wotan/Wanderer then emerged from it, however. Perhaps he just hid himself there for a while to observe Siegfried and Mime. It also serves to help Siegfried forge the sword: for example the propeller (which echoes the helix imagery Warner uses throughout the cycle) is used as a bellows. Whether it has any wider, or deeper, significance in Warner's mind I have not been able to fathom, but will at some point read his interview in The Power of the Ring to see if he answers that question. It's possible that it was Wotan's plane, but I have trouble making sense of that in terms of the narrative: Fafner took the treasure, and he is the builder, not Wotan.Originally posted by DracoM View Post
Yes, the final image was of a female rising within the ring. I think Warner's point is probably that, the old world order having been dominated by male figures (who between them contrived to wreck it), the new world order should be a feminine one in contrast. I suppose it also reflects the cyclical nature of the piece, the Rheingold having at the outset been in the possession of the Rheinmaidens. But, again, I'm slightly speculating, and possibly also half-remembering what I've read or heard from Warner on the subject.
Possibly the return of Erde at the beginning of Gotterdammerung serves to answer your question: you can't kill the life-force, but Wotan's act in attempting to do so was a reflection of his vandalism demonstrated by his destruction of the world ash tree.
A lot of guessing here, I'm afraid. But that was one of the beauties of the production, for me at least: it certainly gave me a great deal to think about.Comment
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Stephen Smith #41
It is good to read such an enthusiastic post but do remember that for many of us on this Forum and elsewhere, attending a live opera performance is not a possible option for various reasons. I know you did not actually mean that but to be told (almost) that listening to the performance on the radio is not the real thing and those who sit at home and listen to it should shut up (I honestly know you did not mean that but all the same...) is pretty off-putting.
To those of us who listen to the performance on the radio, it is the performance and we have as much right to express our response and criticism on the basis of our own experience as those who attended the live performance. Or what’s the point of Radio3?
All that besides, I very much enjoyed reading your post and look forward to seeing many more in the future.Last edited by doversoul1; 26-10-12, 11:19.Comment
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