Götterdämmerung R3

[Richard Tarleton]

Some excellent and thought-provoking stuff here.

I commented in the Siegfried thread about the gold model plane in Rheingold, but I wondered (since the full sized version was not made of gold, but had been a functioning aeroplane) whether it was something Mime (who after all was given to writing physics formulae on his chalkboard, and is clearly quite clever) knocked up in later years. I'd question if it was Fafner's plane, since the skeleton of the pilot was still lying on Mime's workshop floor next to the plane....Sometimes I think these producers/directors are just playing with us.

Some of the tiny details were only apparent if you had binoculars (as I did) - for instance the temperature chart on Alberich's flying intensive care bed in GD, which indicated that he was far from well, and Gutrune decorating the little figurine as she lounged on the sofa (which the uncouth Siegfried later walked on in his boots). I wonder about the point of including details that are too small to be seen......

As for the death of Erde - yes, puzzling, but the Wanderer clearly stuck his spear into her, and in the Norn scene her withered corpse was still sitting in her armchair. The Norns kept loking nervously at her. It makes a slight nonsense of their last line -"Down, down to Mother" - they clearly hadn't taken on board that she was dead.

But yes, Stephen sums it up nicely.

[JimD]

As for the death of Erde - yes, puzzling, but the Wanderer clearly stuck his spear into her, and in the Norn scene her withered corpse was still sitting in her armchair. The Norns kept loking nervously at her. It makes a slight nonsense of their last line -"Down, down to Mother" - they clearly hadn't taken on board that she was dead.

Perhaps they, too, are dying.

[Prommer]

I have just listened to the duet ('O heilige Gotter') before Siegfried takes off down the Rhine, and neither was at their best here - but Bullock was shrieking! As for Sarah Lenton, better leave that one... No? Oh well: I think it is a bit silly or at least unwise these days to refer to 'that woman' etc. HOWEVER, mainly because you will have people jump on you and life's too short. It never ceases to amaze me how some seem actively to relish the chance to get offended! Shades of the student union indeed. And if they retort that they would prefer just not to be offended, I will reply: you too need to consider not only what you think you think, but what others will think you have thought...

[Alison]

I would miss a Brunnhilde who didn't shriek some of the time!

Susan has come a long way since her early appearances on Friday Night is Music Night and there
was plenty to enjoy in her performance.

[Stephen Smith]

I understand this is a forum where the starting point is that users are radio listeners, so my enthusiastic post may irritate (Although, shades here of "Hello, I’d like an argument please...").

I've just come to think that live radio broadcasts on the whole put the reputation of operatic performance at risk - especially to those who are appraching it anew. But I agree it should not invalidate the opinions of those who have no option but to/choose to listen to broadcasts, and be critical of what they find.

My post was to express that I have a different experience of opera performance generally and the in particular this Ring cycle - lots of factors and layers to take in, and overwelmingly positive, so that anyone who is scheduled to see it live knows there has been a different and positivr experience (which I am relieved to note, others are sharing in their own reports as well)

There are always exceptions, with golden performances captured live (but perhaps mainly for the experienced who can get into a frame of mind making the necessary adjustments)

On a different tack, I have been able to see the Glyndebourne Billy Budd and Tristan live and in the cinema, and found the cinema experience not far removed from live - just as absorbing, and imparting much of the qualities, or a satisfying equivalent, as the live performance. The film I presume is the same as the DVD - so edited and produced. I'm not sure about Met broadcasts - they are live? (I have switched off Met radio broadcasts, don't listen these days, and in particular I don't like the sound of the chorus).

(I'll be working for the rest of the day, so unable to view the posts here until this evening).

[underthecountertenor]

Stephen: I think your point about opera in the cinema perhaps provides an answer to Richard Tarleton's query about tiny details invisible to the opera audience. I've often wondered whether opera directors in recent years have had at least half an eye on the HD cinema and Blu-Ray legacy of their productions. The details Richard mentions are much more likely to be caught on close-ups: indeed the fear may be that an absence of detail will render the experience a pale imitation of being in the opera house rather than an alternative with its own merits. Something must be done to justify the high cinema ticket prices, after all. And a barren stage set is likely to be far more unsatisfactory in the HD age than in the old days of filmed opera when virtually everything seemed to be filmed as if from a seat in the stalls. In much the same way, the advent of HD television has meant that far more time and money has had to be spent getting on detailed screen sets etc.
Just a thought.

[aeolium]

On a different tack, I have been able to see the Glyndebourne Billy Budd and Tristan live and in the cinema, and found the cinema experience not far removed from live - just as absorbing, and imparting much of the qualities, or a satisfying equivalent, as the live performance.

I've found that, Stephen, and especially the sense of being at a communal experience (even to the extent of hearing audience applause and shouts of 'Bravo', which can be somewhat unreal - but then so much of opera is unreal ). In that respect it's much better than watching a DVD of the performance.

[DracoM]

Yes, seen big opera in cinemas and it works, particularly if relayed live. Seen several Ring cycles round the world in times gone by, and take the point that elaborate and complex stage imagery have in the director's mind more than an eye to the cinematic legacy. Good..........

BUT

it does then raise the very vexed point of singer quality. Would you buy an expensive Blue-ray which has some wobbly performances on it? Hmm. So doing it live is one thing, but if that perf is going to be recorded live, then.....maybe you'd have to try to choose your singers very, very carefully indeed.

[underthecountertenor]

Actually, although I have done so in the past, I think I would very rarely if ever buy a Blu-Ray (or DVD) of an opera again, as they are all available to hire from the likes of Love Film, and I simply don't think I would watch any opera on TV more than once or at most twice. I got the Copenhagen Ring from Love Film, and very enjoyable it was too (it would be interesting to know what Kaspar Holten really thinks of the ROH Ring, given that he has directed his own in a very different, but in my view extremely successful way).
Anyway, of course, the point I'm trying to make through all the digression is that I'd very readily take the risk that some voices might not be, er, to my taste when hiring a Blu-Ray, less so if buying.

[underthecountertenor]

By the way, I note that, although the Warner Ring was broadcast on BBC TV last time round, it does not appear to have been released on DVD/Blu-Ray. This cycle is not being filmed, so far as I am aware, although we were informed that, for some reason, Act III of last week's Walkure would be.

[Simon Biazeck]

Stephen: I think your point about opera in the cinema perhaps provides an answer to Richard Tarleton's query about tiny details invisible to the opera audience. I've often wondered whether opera directors in recent years have had at least half an eye on the HD cinema and Blu-Ray legacy of their productions. The details Richard mentions are much more likely to be caught on close-ups: indeed the fear may be that an absence of detail will render the experience a pale imitation of being in the opera house rather than an alternative with its own merits. Something must be done to justify the high cinema ticket prices, after all. And a barren stage set is likely to be far more unsatisfactory in the HD age than in the old days of filmed opera when virtually everything seemed to be filmed as if from a seat in the stalls. In much the same way, the advent of HD television has meant that far more time and money has had to be spent getting on detailed screen sets etc.
Just a thought.

Granted this is not a typical case, but for the recent 3D version of Zambello's ROH Carmen (by then in its first revival, I think!) detail certainly was added and some new action devised here and there. We are often asked to modify makeup or indeed apply it anew when cameras are about. I felt a little vulnerable when the man from wigs said I had to 'take the shine off' my burgeoning bald patch for my fondling moment (don't ask!) with Carmen (Christine Rice) in Act 1! Some of the old guard take a dim view of this sort of tarting up for the cameras, but I can see why directors may feel it's necessary with super sharp picture quality.

[underthecountertenor]

I remember your fondling moment fondly, Simon!

[Simon Biazeck]

I remember your fondling moment fondly, Simon!

Yes, I thought you might!. But I digress. Musing on the Die Walküre filming moment you mentioned, it may just be for promotional use.

[Mr Pee]

I saw this Warner Ring back in when it was first staged in - I think- 2007, and found it, as Rings should be, an overwhelming experience. There were some breathtaking moments, such as the scene change into Nibelheim in Rheingold, and the enormous helix bursting into flame at the end of Walkure. I was surprised at the unenthusiastic response to the cycle from most critics, but it seems that pretty much any staging of The Ring is going to displease, at the least, a significant minority.

I did not listen to the radio broadcasts of the recent cycle, because I too find opera on radio a generally unsatisfactory experience. The sound is rarely up to the standard of a decent CD, and deficencies tend to be magnified. One also has to put up with various stage noises without actually being able to see what is creating them- which I also find a problem with live recordings.

Wagner's concept was the "total work of art", music, drama, and staging all combining to create the tremendously powerful experience of his music dramas. Radio only provides us with one of those elements, and often to an unsatisfactory standard.

I hope that there will be a DVD/Blu-Ray release of the Warner cycle at some point. In the meantime I know that Sky Arts 2 are going to be showing the recent Met Opera Ring, directed by Robert LePage, in their upcoming season. No dates as yet but I will certainly setting the recorder- I was going to ask Santa for the Blu-Rays but I won't trouble him now!

[underthecountertenor]

Mr Pee: I said 'Gesamtkunstwerk' as well as 'Personenregie' earlier, but I think it may have been engulfed by my own political correctness gone mad.
Thanks for the heads up on the Met Ring broadcast. I didn't catch it in the cinema, and would be interested to see it (although in my experience the sound quality on Sky Arts 2, even its HD channel, is not great). If you find out the dates, could you post a further heads up? Ta.
I'm pleased to find someone who agrees with me that first acquaintance with the Warner Ring, in 2007ish, was overwhelming, by the way.