Steerhorns in Götterdämmerung

[JFLL]

Does anyone know what happened to the steerhorns which were specially made for the Solti Götterdämmerung? The story is told by John Culshaw in the notes to the recording:

'In Act Two of Götterdämmerung at the moment when Hagen summons the vassals, Wagner writes parts for three steerhorns: one, playing C, is to be blown by Hagen on stage; a second replies with a D flat off-stage left; and a third is heard with the note D from the right. … Today in most theatres the notes are played by trombones seated in the orchestra pit; and the result of this compromise is to produce the wrong sound in the wrong perspective, and to eliminate the contrast between on-stage and off-stage, and between right and left. It is argued that trombones make a more 'musical' sound because their tone is rounder, more pleasant, and their pitch more accurate. Precisely so; for exactly those reasons Wagner did not write for trombones. The drama of the summoning of the vassals led him to want a coarser, more primitive sound than any trombone can provide; and his dramatic instinct led him to write for steerhorns because they make an uncouth sound roughly in the region of the written note. That Wagner's wishes are ignored was confirmed when we attempted to borrow real steerhorns for this recording: they did not exist because everybody today uses trombones. Eventually Wilhelm Pitz introduced us to a Bayreuth instrument maker, Otto Mahler, who had known the original instruments and had indeed seen them carried off as trophies by American soldiers after the war. We commissioned him to make a special set as similar as possible to the original, and the rather startling result - which was Wagner's intention - can be heard in Act Two.'

As far as I know the steerhorns haven't been used since. I'd have thought they might, for example, have been given/sold to Bayreuth after the Solti Ring was finished, but, if so, they haven't been used since. Or have they? I know we've got several brass experts on this board, so I'm confident of an answer!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've often wondered about this. John Culshaw's book is utterly fascinating, but it does leave a few unanswered questions.

[Flosshilde]

I thought I'd do a quick Google (Solti ring steerhorns) to see what came up - this thread was the third item The first was Amazon, the second Wikipedia.

[JFLL]

I thought I'd do a quick Google (Solti ring steerhorns) to see what came up - this thread was the third item The first was Amazon .....

The postage is a bit expensive, though ....

[Petrushka]

This has intrigued me since I first read Ring Resounding in 1971. I'd say that there are six possibilities:

1) Decca commissioned and paid for the steerhorns so they owned them and they might still be residing in some dusty cupboard in South London.

2) Decca donated them to the Vienna Philharmonic/State Opera.

3) Solti took them with him to Covent Garden where he was Music Director.

4) Bayreuth had them.

5) Otto Wagner had them back.

6) They have been destroyed or lost.

I'm sure I recall reading somewhere (perhaps later in Culshaw's book?) that Solti had them at the Royal Opera House.

A pity, really, that I never thought to ask Solti on one of the number of times I met him post-concert. I often used to see Christopher Raeburn in London whenever the VPO were in town and never thought to ask him either.

[MrGongGong]

I think the ROH have some (whether they are the same ones ?)
there was someone waving a couple about at the British Horn Society bash there last year ?

So ask a hornplayer from the ROH

[Simon B]

Does anyone know what happened to the steerhorns which were specially made for the Solti Götterdämmerung?

No, but with regard to:

As far as I know the steerhorns haven't been used since.

How would you know? I'm not being (intentionally!) awkward, I'm just wondering whether the implication is that you think that these parts are still usually played on trombones, ergo no-one uses real stierhorns?

That may have been the case at the time of the Solti recordings, but not any more. At the BBCSO Prom concert performance of Gotterdammerung a few years ago there was a small battallion of the things (at least 6 IIRC - presumably there were doublings or triplings of each of the three pitches for impact in that space). The more recent Hallé concert performances of Gotterdammerung and Die Walkure used real stierhorns. There's also one in the Meistersinger - the recent production (and Proms performance) with Terfel as Sachs again used a real stierhorn. Ditto the series of Opera North Die Walkure performances that have just finished.

As Mr GG says, the ROH owns a set of stierhorns. It's quite likely that these same instruments were those used in many of the above performances - I think the ROH hire out various specialised instruments that they own such as stierhorns, contrabass trombones, Wagner tubas etc.

My understanding was that stierhorns are usually played by a trombonist (certainly the case with the WNO Meistersinger, and according to this, http://www.britishtrombonesociety.or...onent&type=raw, trombonists played them for Solti at Covent Garden). Maybe anyone accustomed to a mouthpiece and with enough fortitude can do the job. They certainly make an impressive racket!

[JFLL]

How would you know? !

I wouldn't -- that was the point of my question!

I'm just wondering whether the implication is that you think that these parts are still usually played on trombones, ergo no-one uses real stierhorns?

No, that would be a non-sequitur. It's certainly commonly stated, though, that most performances use trombones. You have shown that that's by no means always the case, at least in the last few years. But I note that most of these performances were concert performances. What about the opera house?

[Ferretfancy]

I think it was in the original notes for the LPs of Das Rheingold that Culshaw mentioned that there was an anvil school in Vienna which supplied the 18 required! This does seem a rather unlikely story, but perhaps I'm being cynical!

[Flosshilde]

Two of my favourite credits were in programmes for Ring cycles: one for Rheingold at ENO (back in the 70's), when British Rail were credited for the anvils; and the other for Gotterdammerung in the RO's first Friedrich production, when Dunlopillow were credited for cushions.

[Richard Tarleton]

I shall be scanning the orchestra pit at the ROH on 24 October from my seat in the amphitheatre!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think it was in the original notes for the LPs of Das Rheingold that Culshaw mentioned that there was an anvil school in Vienna which supplied the 18 required! This does seem a rather unlikely story, but perhaps I'm being cynical!

Sounds like a forgery.

[umslopogaas]

A forge perhaps, though they dont do any forging, but a forgery? Not at all, I've got the LPs and the booklet says:

"For the Niebelheim scene, eighteen anvils of the type and size specified by Wagner were obtained, and the Vienna Philharmonic was able to send eighteen percussionists to play them. (Unlikely though it may seem, there is something called an anvil school in Vienna)."

Perhaps they DO do some forging on the side, the repertory for anvil bashers is rather restricted.

[Pianorak]

. . . eighteen anvils of the type and size specified by Wagner were obtained . . .

One or two of those anvils made their way back to London.

[Karafan]

I have a friend in Germany, not registered on the forum, who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of Bayreuth & Covent Garden/broadcast recordings, so put the intriguing question to him. He is travelling at the moment, but replied:

"The steerhorns were used at CG at least for the 1965 Gotterdammerung - I have the broadcast and they are clearly audible.

Solti continued conducting first cycles at the garden until 1970 (Downes did the second cycles) and I presume they were used. There was a 1970 broadcast of Gotterdammerung but I don't have it to check. As for later cycles - I can check the 1978 when I return."

Hope that might assist.

K.