Originally posted by Bert Coules
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Conquering Wagner.
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Originally posted by Pianorak View PostThere was plenty of fire in the Richard Jones "Ring" at Covent Garden mid-1990s.Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain.
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Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post...there are no real laughs in the Ring until Siegfried makes his little mistake on meeting Brünnhilde for the first time.
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Siegfried's cruel treatment of Mime? What about Mime's horrendous treatment of Siegfried? Mime is a calculating opportunist thief and liar, who sees Siegfried as a means to an end, no more, and raises him in a coldly calculating way for one reason only: to win for Mime the power and position he believes he deserves. Mime wants nothing more than for Siegfried to do what he was trained to do and then die, and uses his position of strength over the boy to do everything he can to ensure that that happens. How can Siegfried's fumbling and naive attempts to escape from that fate possibly be seen as "cruel treatment"?
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John Culshaw - to mix threads for a minute - takes up this very point in his accompanying notes to the Decca Siegfried. It seems that, 'Wagner had strong feelings about the characterisation of Mime, but despite his writings - and Renest Newman's subsequent campaign -there still seems to-day an impression that Mime is a pathetic kindly old dwarf (a sort of Wagnerian predecessor of Walt Disney's Grumpy), who had a tough time in Rheingold at the hands of his wicked brother Alberich and who has somehow redeemed himself by tending the young Siegrfried. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mime is the embodiment of avarice and treachery, but it is all on a minor scale compared with the schemings of Alberich with whom one can occasionally sympathise'.
Despite that, I too share the difficulty of liking Siegfried as a character.
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Originally posted by gradus View PostDespite that, I too share the difficulty of liking Siegfried as a character.
Renest?
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Originally posted by Bert Coules View PostSiegfried's cruel treatment of Mime? What about Mime's horrendous treatment of Siegfried? Mime is a calculating opportunist thief and liar, who sees Siegfried as a means to an end, no more, and raises him in a coldly calculating way for one reason only: to win for Mime the power and position he believes he deserves. Mime wants nothing more than for Siegfried to do what he was trained to do and then die, and uses his position of strength over the boy to do everything he can to ensure that that happens. How can Siegfried's fumbling and naive attempts to escape from that fate possibly be seen as "cruel treatment"?
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I'm not sure I see taunting in any of Siegfried's exchanges with Mime. Which particular lines have you in mind?Last edited by Bert Coules; 03-01-11, 15:46.
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Originally posted by Bert Coules View PostI'm not sure I see "taunting" in any of Siegfried's exchanges with Mime. Which particular lines have you in mind?
Zu zwei komm' ich, dich besseru zwicken...
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What you see as taunting, I see as wholly justified and entirely understandable attempts to get some truth out of Mime after a lifetime of evasion and lies. Siegfried knows full well just what he's up against:
Seh' ich dir erst
mit den Augen zu,
zu übel erkenn' ich,
wie alles du tust...
When I look you in the eyes, all I see is evil in everything you do...
And explains exactly why he acts the way he does:
So muss ich dich fassen
um 'was zu wissen:
gutwillig
erfahr' ich doch nichts!
I'm forced to manhandle you to find anything out: I learn nothing by being kind!
And most intriguingly:
So musst' ich alles
ab dir trotzen:
kaum das Reden
hätt' ich erraten,
entwand ich's mit Gewalt
nicht dem Schüft!
I've had to force everything out of you. I wouldn't even be able to speak if I hadn't made you teach me!Last edited by Bert Coules; 03-01-11, 16:24.
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