Opera Lovers unite against the ROH and the BBC in unholy alliance

[french frank]

The scene shifting will take no longer than usual. Indeed, one of the reasons for this change is to avoid having to shift any more scenes.
[...]What will now happen is that the Act II will be run twice and there will be no need to change the scenery. The shift from Act II to III will happen during the interval, as it would on any other night. The opera will, at most, end 30 minutes later than normal.

Well, they have explained their thinking, and what you say is stated specifically, or implied, in what I wrote - an exceptionally long interval and a later ending. And the change of plan announced three days before the performance.

No one who doesn't think much of the Maestro at the Opera idea is under any obligation to watch it on television. But to have it given precedence over the real thing, as I pointed out, is an insidious idea which echoes the introduction of populist broadcasting features on Radio 3.

[MrGongGong]

There is, as many musicologists will tell you, a long tradition of these kind of ideas in music
The Baryton parts in some of Haydn's music were written for Prince Esterhazy (I think that's right ?)
and in Gagaku music there is often an "emperor's koto part" (which is always the same music and very simple so that he could play in his orchestra)

There's a good bit of interesting musicology to be done in exploring the history of this IMV

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

but it's important NOT to throw out the good practice of expanding access, which the ROH is usually brilliant at IMV.

???????????



£210.00 (£195.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£196.00 (£181.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£187.00 (£172.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£174.00 (£159.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£165.00 (£150.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£89.50 (£81.00 Ticket + £8.50 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£66.00 (£60.00 Ticket + £6.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£60.50 (£55.00 Ticket + £5.50 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£51.00 (£46.00 Ticket + £5.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£41.00 (£37.00 Ticket + £4.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£31.00 (£28.00 Ticket + £3.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)

[aeolium]

There is, as many musicologists will tell you, a long tradition of these kind of ideas in music

There is a long tradition of composers writing music for amateurs to play (and some royal patrons like Frederick the Great were no mean players apparently), but I'm not aware of a long tradition of complete musical beginners conducting extensive sections from major orchestral or operatic works in public (Edward Heath?).

Why not combine it with the BBC Young Musician of the Year, so the young performer has the added difficulty of coping with an orchestral accompaniment directed by an incompetent celeb?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why not combine it with the BBC Young Musician of the Year, so the young performer has the added difficulty of coping with an orchestral accompaniment directed by an incompetent celeb?

[MrGongGong]

???????????



£210.00 (£195.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£196.00 (£181.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£187.00 (£172.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£174.00 (£159.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£165.00 (£150.00 Ticket + £15.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£89.50 (£81.00 Ticket + £8.50 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£66.00 (£60.00 Ticket + £6.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£60.50 (£55.00 Ticket + £5.50 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£51.00 (£46.00 Ticket + £5.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£41.00 (£37.00 Ticket + £4.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)
£31.00 (£28.00 Ticket + £3.00 FeesAdditional TaxesFees/Additional Taxes)

http://www.roh.org.uk/learning

http://www.roh.org.uk/insights/insights-tackling-les-troyens

etc etc etc

and looking at tickets

here are some prices as well !

£55.00
£46.00
£37.00
£28.00
£13.00
£9.00


So that's less than three pints in the pub over the road !

a bit of perspective is useful sometimes !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

and looking at tickets

here are some prices as well !

£55.00
£46.00
£37.00
£28.00
£13.00
£9.00

So that's less than three pints in the pub over the road !

I don't go to the pub across the road either.

[ahinton]

I share many peoples views that this whole "celebfest" style presentation is more than a little naff
BUT
who exactly is it harming ?

Not the musicians as some suggest as they are not the pampered elite who will be offended by having an novice conductor.

Excuse me? Why would only members of a "pampered élite" risk being offended by having a novice conductor? (and let's not forget that we're not talking about a "novice" in the sense of a budding student of conducting but someone who can't even read an orchestral score); indeed, it occurs to me that, since some of the members of any such "élite" might not be able to read one either or understand much about the art and techniques of conducting, they might be rather less offended by this than people who do know about such matters, such as the musicians who will doubtless keep their sense of offence to themselves as they're being paid to do their work, even in bizarre circumstances such as these.

Not the singers who will get to sing onstage at the ROH

But they'd get to do that anyway without this charade!

Not really the audience apart from those who regard all performances as a religious ritual and are offended by the sight of someone wearing clothes with zips in a performance of Bach (not HIPP enough)

Zips on the HIPP! At least that is funny!

[MrGongGong]

I never said I thought it was a GOOD idea
merely that it's hardly the hugely offensive thing that some seem to think it is !

[LHC]

Well, they have explained their thinking, and what you say is stated specifically, or implied, in what I wrote - an exceptionally long interval and a later ending. And the change of plan announced three days before the performance.

The interval is only 'exceptionally long' if you choose not to watch the second performance of Act II. Those who choose to watch the celebrity conducted version will have the same length of interval as any one else.

I too would prefer that the Opera House had not chosen to involve itself with this programme and that, having done so, they had chosen a different 'prize' for the ultimate winner - conducting a concert of arias with the young artists with free tickets for the audience might have been a better solution. But as they have chosen to go down this route, I don't see that what is proposed for Saturday night is that offensive.

[ahinton]

I never said I thought it was a GOOD idea
merely that it's hardly the hugely offensive thing that some seem to think it is !

I know that you didn't; in fact, personally, I think it absurd, unenlightening and entirely unnecessary rather than offensive per se, although I can quite easily see why some peope would be inclined to prioritise their sense of offence over any or all of these things.

[Serial_Apologist]

Zips on the HIPP! At least that is funny!

I'm thinking of devising a new multimedia genre, combining in one package traditional presentation of opera, X-Factor type competition with "happenings"-type spontaneous disruptions by disgruntled musical elites (with audience-participation), and reduced-price drinks served in the interval in the pub opposite.

I will call it HIPP-HOPERA UNBUTTONED.

[aeolium]

I'm thinking of devising a new multimedia genre, combining in one package traditional presentation of opera, X-Factor type competition with "happenings"-type spontaneous disruptions by disgruntled musical elites (with audience-participation), and reduced-price drinks served in the interval in the pub opposite.

I will call it HIPP-HOPERA UNBUTTONED.

I think the BBC has pre-empted you there, S_A

I never said I thought it was a GOOD idea
merely that it's hardly the hugely offensive thing that some seem to think it is !

No, it's not hugely offensive, in the way for instance wars, rampant tax evasion, the phone-hacking scandal etc are, but it's still offensive. Perhaps your indifference is because you think it's just pampered opera-goers watching Puccini ('big deal') but surely it's to do with a musical event that is put on to a high professional standard being partially hijacked by a gimmicky talent show. And this has absolutely nothing to do with access or promoting amateur performance - there are plenty of good initiatives for instance with amateur choirs and schools all round the country - but purely with attracting attention and ratings for the BBC.
I am very unlikely to attend an ROH production again simply due to difficulties of access - the prohibitive cost of visiting London as well as the difficulty of getting affordable tickets - but I am concerned about this as it may be a precedent for other unwelcome intrusions e.g. into concerts by BBC orchestras or by BBC New Generation Artists. It is an awful idea and people are right to be hammering it.

[french frank]

The interval is only 'exceptionally long' if you choose not to watch the second performance of Act II. Those who choose to watch the celebrity conducted version will have the same length of interval as any one else.

Not much of a choice for those who don't want a re-run of Act 2 - just an extra long wait before Act 3.

I too would prefer that the Opera House had not chosen to involve itself with this programme and that, having done so, they had chosen a different 'prize' for the ultimate winner - conducting a concert of arias with the young artists with free tickets for the audience might have been a better solution. But as they have chosen to go down this route, I don't see that what is proposed for Saturday night is that offensive.

I wouldn't think of it in terms of being 'offensive'. I can think of much more insulting words than that!

[salymap]

Ridiculous is the word that comes to my mind. With the price of tickets, the problems in my case of getting to Charing Cross Station by 11.05pm, I would never consider going to such a possible shambles even when I could.
What next are they going to 'cheapen'?