Terfel

[Mandryka]

You can say all that, Mandryka, but even so - it is a beautiful voice. He has become so much lauded as the international superstar that the only way to go in terms of reputation is down. Pedestals and all that.

A beautiful voice may be an asset, but you need far more than that for Wagner: comparatively few great Wagnerian singers have had what might be termed 'beautiful' voices. Intelligence, feeling for words and dramatic ability are far more important, I'd say.

Of all the Celts, the Welsh seems particularly prone to putting their heroes on pedestals: I was once part of a Theatr Clywd audience, most of whom seemed to want to deify Sir Antony Hopkins (he was giving a talk to the 'home crowd'). The aforementioned bbc doc contained a goodly number of forelock-tugging taffs, eager to place the mantle of Glendwyr on Brynnyyboy's reluctant shoulders.

[amateur51]

Of all the Celts, the Welsh seems particularly prone to putting their heroes on pedestals: I was once part of a Theatr Clywd audience, most of whom seemed to want to deify Sir Antony Hopkins (he was giving a talk to the 'home crowd'). The aforementioned bbc doc contained a goodly number of forelock-tugging taffs, eager to place the mantle of Glendwyr on Brynnyyboy's reluctant shoulders.

Who/what is Glendwyr?

[Mandryka]

Who/what is Glendwyr?

Known to the English as GlenDOWER (Owain).

[amateur51]

Known to the English as GlenDOWER (Owain).

Not that I've ever heard of, I must say.

I reckon that you mean Owain Glyndŵr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owain_Glynd%C5%B5r

[Biffo]

I can't imagine that Terfel will ever sink to the level of Sing-Katy-one-note even if he retires from the stage completely. 'Crossover' is lucrative and here to stay but you don't have to add to the record company's coffers by buying the stuff.

[Richard Tarleton]

Of all the Celts, the Welsh seems particularly prone to putting their heroes on pedestals

One of the greatest Welsh opera singers of recent years, Anne Evans, spent much of her career in the shadow of another, Gwyneth Jones, although to my ear she was vastly preferable - not a huge voice, her Brunnhilde and Isolde had a rare humanity and vulnerability about them without Jones' notorious wobble. I use the past tense only because I imagine she's retired - to Dame Anne. Geraint Evans, Stuart Burrows - some deserve their pedestals.

I once sat a few seats away from Gareth Edwards at a WNO performance in the New Theatre - the Cardiff audience were in heaven, both their passions under one roof

[bluestateprommer]

Really, Mandryka. These cheap shots at Terfel do you no favours.

Agreed; terms casually thrown about like "nogood boyo" and "boy-child" indicate more about the commenter than the subject. When I met Terfel at the Metropolitan Opera stage door once, along with the usual throng at the Met stage door, BT was very gracious in signing programs, as well as my copy of his DG recording of Falstaff. He was very unpretentious, down-to-earth and appreciative. From my visit to London this past summer, one Prommer commented to me that one of the artists whom one can find in a pub near the RAH, chatting happily with fans, was Terfel. (Donald Runnicles was another artist mentioned in that same regard.) This is hardly the behavior of a "nogood boyo" or "boy-child".

In addition, with regard to putting family first, in the context of Terfel here, Kurt Masur once told this to Alan Gilbert:

'''Kurt said to me he'd missed the birth of his first child, and it was the biggest mistake of his life,'' Mr. Gilbert said.'

Quote from this article, BTW: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/20/ar...ted=all&src=pm

Contrast this with the situation that BT was in, cited in the Daily Mail article:

'He has also expressed disappointment at missing the birth of two of his sons and once said: "I was disappointed - with the people who were engaging me. They had no sympathy. People couldn't understand why I wanted to be at home.

"Sometimes, those who work within this art form are very blinkered, especially if they do not have children of their own. They just don't get it."'

[Mandryka]

Agreed; terms casually thrown about like "nogood boyo" and "boy-child" indicate more about the commenter than the subject. When I met Terfel at the Metropolitan Opera stage door once, along with the usual throng at the Met stage door, BT was very gracious in signing programs, as well as my copy of his DG recording of Falstaff. He was very unpretentious, down-to-earth and appreciative. From my visit to London this past summer, one Prommer commented to me that one of the artists whom one can find in a pub near the RAH, chatting happily with fans, was Terfel. (Donald Runnicles was another artist mentioned in that same regard.) This is hardly the behavior of a "nogood boyo" or "boy-child".

In addition, with regard to putting family first, in the context of Terfel here, Kurt Masur once told this to Alan Gilbert:



Quote from this article, BTW: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/20/ar...ted=all&src=pm

Contrast this with the situation that BT was in, cited in the Daily Mail article:

I fear your objectivity has been fatally compromised by Mr. Terfel's friendly gesture in agreeing to sign your programme and chat with you. This thread has never been about whether he's a nice chap, or not.

I dunno....I find his much-vaunted 'lack of pretention' a bit pretentious in itself sometimes....like the time he added a Flanders and Swann number to one of his lieder recitals. This may actually have been because he liked the song but, as an audience member, this is the kind of thing that gives me the shivers. Maybe one day he'll decide to do Smells Like Teen Spirit as his encore....and ask the audience to join in with the chorus.

[Mandryka]

One of the greatest Welsh opera singers of recent years, Anne Evans, spent much of her career in the shadow of another, Gwyneth Jones, although to my ear she was vastly preferable - not a huge voice, her Brunnhilde and Isolde had a rare humanity and vulnerability about them without Jones' notorious wobble. I use the past tense only because I imagine she's retired - to Dame Anne. Geraint Evans, Stuart Burrows - some deserve their pedestals.

I once sat a few seats away from Gareth Edwards at a WNO performance in the New Theatre - the Cardiff audience were in heaven, both their passions under one roof

I'd agree with you about Anne Evans over Gwyneth Jones.....I like both of them, but I think A.E. was more reliable. Dame Gwyneth's control over her instrument was always a bit variable: she certainly didn't deserve the critical kicking she habitually got from the middle of her career onwards, though.

[Princess Hello]

[QUOTE=french frank;94836]Shame on you, Princess . Do you like any sort of classical vocalism?

QUOTE]

I do have a problem with operatic singing. It seems to me that the trade that you have to make to be audible over the top of an orchestra usually comes at an terrible price in terms of both subtlety and intonation. Many people find the sound of an opera singer at full tilt exciting in itself, irrespective of the musical context, but I don't. Nor do I admire the maestrofication that tends to accompany it.

Bing Crosby transformed pop music by godfathering a microphone into which he could sing intimately. I'd love to hear Siegmund and Sieglinde falling in love without sounding as if they're at opposite ends of a rugby pitch. I'm sure it's possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'classical vocalism', but I am currently going weak at the knees at the sound of Tenebrae doing Victoria's Requiem.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd love to hear Siegmund and Sieglinde falling in love without sounding as if they're at opposite ends of a rugby pitch. I'm sure it's possible.

... but I don't think it needs microphones just a good conductor, well-judged orchestral forces and a stage director with some idea of how the voice works. Oh, and a good singer.

I am currently going weak at the knees at the sound of Tenebrae doing Victoria's Requiem.

... and then some!

Best Wishes.

[Nick Armstrong]

I do have a problem with operatic singing. It seems to me that the trade that you have to make to be audible over the top of an orchestra usually comes at an terrible price in terms of both subtlety and intonation. Many people find the sound of an opera singer at full tilt exciting in itself, irrespective of the musical context, but I don't. Nor do I admire the maestrofication that tends to accompany it.

Bing Crosby transformed pop music by godfathering a microphone into which he could sing intimately. I'd love to hear Siegmund and Sieglinde falling in love without sounding as if they're at opposite ends of a rugby pitch. I'm sure it's possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'classical vocalism', but I am currently going weak at the knees at the sound of Tenebrae doing Victoria's Requiem.

Says it all, really.

My reply when asked "are you an opera lover?" is: I love some operas but I don't like most operatic singing.

Oh well, doesn't half save money

[french frank]

'm not sure what you mean by 'classical vocalism', but I am currently going weak at the knees at the sound of Tenebrae doing Victoria's Requiem.

I meant really the classically trained voice, and solo singing. There's something about the style of singing which (for me) requires projection of the voice even if it's singing Lieder. For opera, the effort strengthens the emotions, heightens the drama. Does it matter if occasionally the voice is overwhelmed by the orchestra? That doesn't happen much anyway if it's an intimate love duet because the orchestra won't be belting it out.

Crooning? Bof! Autre chose.

[Princess Hello]

My old head teacher taught me never to trust anyone who didn't mutter, so I suppose that what is strengthening the emotions and heightening the drama for one person will be emphasising the bleeding obvious for another: in other words a matter of taste.

Bing Crosby is not a personal favourite. But I do think that the developments in recording techniques are important and, the medium being the message, can and should affect how the music is performed. It certainly affects how much late-20th Century music is composed. I can think of a non-vocal exapmle. The bass flute makes a lovely, though quiet, sound and you hear it everywhere in film music. You hardly ever see it on stage in a symphony orchestra though, because it simply wouldn't be heard. Thus, intimate singing.

Besides, the tentative exchanges of awakening love often take place over a turmoil of unexpressed emotion, or so I'm told, in which case the orchestra should be belting it out.

[french frank]

Besides, the tentative exchanges of awakening love often take place over a turmoil of unexpressed emotion, or so I'm told, in which case the orchestra should be belting it out.

I'm sure they are - but in a suppressed way.

I'm not sure that I take your point about the flute example. Opera is a cross between music and drama and I think when there is singing that takes centre stage, must attract the attention. During the orchestral parts the flute (or whichever instrument) holds its own as in any orchestral piece - when the composer wants it to.

Modern opera may similarly do whatever the composer wants - and if microphones are necessary to the conception, so be it.

Perhaps in all productions sound should be considered, like lighting, as part of the creative contribution. If so, bring it on. But I'd be afraid that this would become a sort of cop out, with all singers favouring microphones. In which case ...